The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

Really sorry to hear that, mumsneedwine.

@noblegiraffe don't want to do it again.

@noblegiraffe

The government are not trying to actively spread covid.

What would they do differently if they were?

Hanlon's Razor has been operation for some years now.

As much as think some of this government are actively malicious, I think they've tended to demonstrate incompetence to a degree that looks thoroughly professional.

Name one successful policy of Johnson that has been well implimented as intended to date.

There is nothing that makes a u-turn on schools politically inevitable to this point because the majority public desparately want schools to remain open. The evidence there is that this is part of the problem, isn't getting enough cut through to shift public opinion or political pressure sufficiently.

I agree, I think the vast majority want their dc in school for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure how you shift public opinion.

I know, red don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence, but my question still stands.

What would a government that was actively encouraging covid spread in schools do differently to ours?

I can't think of anything right now.

Just to add that neither I nor my teacher DD advocate closing schools but just some more safety measures than there are now.
So masks in class. DD teaching 30 17 year olds in a room with no masks and inadequate ventilation.
Isolate staff who have been in contact with a positive case.
A rota for a few weeks.
Oh and some penalties for parents who send in DC who should be isolating like the boy last week who mentioned that both his parents were at home with covid.

Johnson is tone deaf and more bothered about his legacy and staying PM than ANYTHING else. Understand that, and you understand how this crisis is being managed.

I'm not sure how you shift public opinion.

You'd have thought that if the public wanted schools open (as I do) they'd leap at the idea of masks/testing/improved ventilation given that they are simple and easily implemented.

Instead there's a lot of fingers in ears, or trying to shut down conversation in case the issue of closing schools comes up.

@RedToothBrush fair point.

@noblegiraffe

I know, red don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence, but my question still stands.

What would a government that was actively encouraging covid spread in schools do differently to ours?

I can't think of anything right now.

The same question can be levelled at a number of subjects. It doesn't stop it being incompetence. They are just very very very very good at imcompetence...

@noblegiraffe

You'd have thought that if the public wanted schools open (as I do) they'd leap at the idea of masks/testing/improved ventilation given that they are simple and easily implemented.

Why do you think they haven't?

So we can agree that the government are encouraging covid spread in schools.

Whether they actually intend to is rather irrelevant to the final outcome.

Why do you think they haven't?

Some of them have. More of them are I think now that things are going so badly.

Some are buying the government line because their school hasn't been badly hit yet, so they're just happy to pootle along.

And some are obviously batshit covid-deniers.

As a poster said upthread I think if lots of kids were getting hospitalised & it was all over the news people wouldn't send their kids in.

@noblegiraffe

Since I started posting these threads I've had crap thrown at me. I'm overly anxious. I should quit teaching. I shouldn't be in front of kids when I'm so stressed. People are sick to the back teeth of me. Urgh not you again OP. I'm running a campaign to close schools. I'm working for the unions. I still actually want to close schools I'm just pretending I don't. I'm not really a teacher. I've got an agenda. And lately 'what is the point in these threads, what do you hope to achieve?'. It's weird how the narrative against me has steadily but consistently changed from flat out personal abuse to more subtle nagging to stop posting.

What they haven't done is explain why they're so resistant to conversations about making schools safer.

There are a lot more listening ears though. The voices you describe seem thinner and thinner with each post.

& obviously if your dc school is fine you don't really think about it.

I'm not sure what the solution is tbh.

By that I mean I can't see the gov changing their stance.

I'll think about an MP email for people to copy. Got a load of marking to do today though...(claims to be a teacher )

@Xenia

They are very difficult issues. Someone saying above schools should be closed. Would it be okay if teachers were not paid if schools closed, and if it meant that parents could not work so taxes were not paid and hospitals had to close would that be okay too?

This is the problem - we are doing a balancing act at present. Closing schools may cause more deaths and damage than keeping them open.

The issue is, Xenia, that schools are not, currently 'open' in the true sense of the word. On a single day - On 12th November, over a week ago now, so will be higher since - 64% of secondary schools had children isolating due to a case of Covid in school. Over 615,000 children were absent ON THAT ONE DAY.

Should a teacher be paid if he or she is not in school because they, or their pupils, are isolating due to a positive case? They are certainly working, providing lessons online.

Or are you proposing that a teacher should be paid if they have to isolate due to a positive case, but not be paid (and therefore have to provide no work for anyone they teach) if a school closes pro-actively because they cannot, for example, provide a safe level of staffing?

Or are you just proposing that we are not paid - and do not have to work - if the government decides that schools must be closed due to the overall level of infection? If that is the case, why should we not be furloughed, if other employees affected by lockdowns are?

@CallmeAngelina

It has been argued on here that is is vital for the economy for the 8% of working adults with children of primary age to keep schools open. In doing so, they've put the hospitality/beauty/other industries at huge risk of going under. How do many parents repay that bonus? Hosting play-dates and sleepovers because schools are open so what does it matter? I would be REALLY pissed off if my business was going to the wall for this.

Do you know, I hadn't thought about the closure of these workplaces from this angle You are absolutely right to point this out. It really highlights the blinkered view of those posters who are continuing to focus on their need to work whilst a large swathe of the population are already risking their livelihoods by being closed down in order for schools to remain open.

We are all having to take a hit whether it's reduced income, or increased work load amongst some of the most common issues. Why do some posters think that it is their right to have it all to the detriment of everybody else?

There will also be a fair bit of cognitive dissonance.

We HAVE to believe schools are safe because we trust them with our children.
If we start thinking that schools are not safe (more for the adults and general community spread than for the children, admittedly) then we have to start questioning why we send out children there eveyt day

Someone saying above schools should be closed.
Who exactly said that, word for word

Me. However, I don't think that closing schools means no education - it can be moved online. It would also help if there was support for parents so they can be at home for that couple of weeks without financial penalty. However, the govt isn't listening to us.

What they haven't done is explain why they're so resistant to conversations about making schools safer

I don't actually think most parents are against making a school safer, they probably just don't think about it & like to think it's safe. Cognitive dissonance is quite normal in such situations.

As both a parent and teacher I am experiencing this cognitive dissonance. My child is now on his second period of isolation because of, it seems, failure to isolate a child whilst waiting for their test to come back. Why am I sending him in when I can? Because we are literally seeing nobody who we might infect. We have no Christmas plans beyond eating ourselves into a stupor because, how can we visit members of our extended family who we might put at risk?