Telegraph tomorrow, Christmas relaxed

[MummaPI]

Just seen the front page on the telegraph but can't read online with subscribing.
Says Boris to announce Christmas rules next week but likely to be 21st-28th.
My first thought was "I don't normally see people every day for this long at Christmas anyway!!"
If anyone can read it and add more info, that would be great. I know its nothing definite but there has been a habit of leaving to the press before announcing.

But would they then be putting extra pressure on NHS @covetingthepreciousthings if they got ill?
Yes this exactly.
I don't care if someone's elderly relation wants to take the risk for themselves. But I don't want my nearly 60 year old paramedic dh having to deal with yet another of these people who put themselves first and is now being admitted with covid. I don't want any more of the BAME medical staff dying because they are in contact with these people AGAIN. Your Mum will be first in the queue for the vaccine, so why take the risk of making it someone else's last Christmas?

"I'm not a believer of conspiracy."

Really @Dustballs? You're doing a fabulous job of looking like you are on this and many other threads. Especially the ones where you demand to know when we are going to rise against it

I can just see the staff crow barring their way in to Shoezone and demanding to be allowed to sell 2 pairs of men's plimsolls for a tenner "coz we won't be controlled"

I hope this is true as I want to see my family ( three other peoplr) at Christmas. We are able to self isolate at home prior to this and I'm personally ok with stricter measures after Christmas to compensate.

Someone upthread said have the government even asked the public if this is what they want. On breakfast news they just said that a survey said 54% of people would be in favour of a lockdown over Christmas to save further restrictions in January. So I am not sure the majority even want restrictions lifted.

@Billie18

Good grief! People so scared to take responsibility for themselves. We should never have had laws prohibiting us from seeing friends or relatives. That doesn't mean we are prevented from taking precautions and limiting contact with those that are vulnerable. Just because you don't risk being fined for doing something doesn't mean you are forced to do it.

Agree

Every year We see family who took us in after my relationship fell apart and my supposed dm decided I was surplus to requirements, I truly value these people

We won’t be going up this year because they’re older and I’d rather see them when it’s safer for everyone

But would they then be putting extra pressure on NHS

Sorry should have clarified in this situation my elderly relative has actually said they have got to the age where they don't want anymore treatment regardless of what illness they catch (Covid or otherwise). Obviously this isn't the case for other people, so totally appreciate other scenarios would but extra strain on the nhs.

Also this isn't a case of masses of family meeting up, this is just a case of the relative still living live as in going to the supermarket themselves when they can but also seeing limited number of family when possibly but also keeping distance etc. For example I dropped off some food shopping for them and I still went in their house as they wanted me to and assume that classes as essential.
Basically just not completely shielding in the house, as they believe that isn't a life and they don't want to live their (possibly) final months like that.

Hope this clears it up a bit more. They won't be going down the pub at Christmas either way!

Sorry should have clarified in this situation my elderly relative has actually said they have got to the age where they don't want anymore treatment regardless of what illness they catch

Sorry to be morbid but the NHS isn’t just about treatment. Your relative may refuse treatment but that doesn’t mean that paramedics and/or a GP won’t be called if whoever is caring for her needs support or other palliative care is required. Illness and dying isn’t usually quick and very few people would happily deal with someone dying over a period of days or weeks without seeking medical support. The NHS also has a role in after someone has died if a post mortem is required and storage before a funeral home is able to take over.

It’s naive to state that you can avoid any burden on the NHS by simply refusing treatment.

@Cornettoninja thanks for that, I do appreciate that, I think I've tried to explain but maybe not very well, as we aren't a family who are all meeting up anyway, we are taking as many precautions as we can & actually I've only seen the elderly relative a handful of times since the pandemic started. It's not as if we are all mixing with them every week. Sorry for any confusion.
It was just that this relative had said that they wished to try carry on a bit more as normal in the sense of still going to the supermarket etc, they don't see many people at all as don't have carers so are totally isolated if they don't see anyone.

So I think in this circumstances it can be classed as essential for their mental health to try keep some normality, but other family members have told them they basically shouldn't ever be leaving the house now

It's just all very difficult, and I feel very sad about the news as obviously this will all put extra strain on any NHS staff come January/ Feb time.

@PullTheBricksDown

Yet another important announcement of national policy made via a newspaper website with a paywall. This government behaves disgracefully.

I completely agree.

@Orangeblossom7777

Are they intending to combine this with the vaccine by mid December I wonder.

The vaccine isn’t ready. People need two doses given weeks again and then will have to wait a few more weeks to develop immunity. Even if they started vaccinating tomorrow, which they are not, no one will have vaccinated immunity before Christmas Day.

I agree, everything is just that bit more difficult now isn’t it?

It wasn’t my intention to pick you up specifically but I do feel it’s important to point out that refusing treatment as an answer to reducing the NHS burden isn’t feasible as a contribution to the wider discussion.

During the first wave there was a lot of discussions about GP’s raising the issue of DNR’s with their very elderly and medically vulnerable patients but I don’t think even that would be enough to stem the impact of uncontrolled covid on the NHS.

@covetingthepreciousthings my last post was in reply to you by the way

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-normal-life-will-resume-by-easter-3g9hnjb8c

Latest saying that we will have restrictions until next Easter but things hopefully back to normal then. With short break for Christmas.

Also vaccine passports

@Orangeblossom7777

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-normal-life-will-resume-by-easter-3g9hnjb8c

Latest saying that we will have restrictions until next Easter but things hopefully back to normal then. With short break for Christmas.

Also vaccine passports

'back to normal by Easter' but if you haven't had the vaccine you can't go anywhere. That's a contradiciton.

What is this vaccine passport? Does that mean everyone will be forced to get the vaccine?

This is utter madness. Why is it okay to suddenly go out and infect all of those poor vulnerable people we've been protecting since March?

The pressure for people to meet with family will be high, even if they don't feel comfortable doing so. I've already told my parents that I will be spending Christmas with just me and DP this year, and my dad has started with the emotional blackmail. They're not old enough for this to be their last Christmas (bar something unexpected happening that could happen to any of us, obviously) but they could be vulnerable to covid, and I will not risk them. But once again I am made to feel like the pariah for trying to be sensible and safe about things.

It's a kick in the teeth for healthcare workers who will have to deal with the aftermath of this, plus people like my DP who work in the funeral industry and get to see first hand the number of extra bodies coming in.

Why is it okay to suddenly go out and infect all of those poor vulnerable people we've been protecting since March

It’s not.

And I’ve noticed that those in favour are not addressing the fact this comes with the statement that stricter measures will be needed in January to balance Christmas.

It says

"Plans are also being drawn up to give “Covid passports” to those who have received the vaccination. The documents will enable them to go to work and socialise more freely than those who refuse the jab."

The trains often don't run between Christmas and new year.
Once people have travelled what difference does it make if they stay with family for one day or 5?
If it's only two days everyone will travel on the same days, making public transport more crowded.
Having a few days means those who work Christmas Day can still see family without worry of a fine.

Christmas is not that important that we all have to remain locked down for longer as a consequence

If it weren’t Christmas and there wouldn’t be a loosening of restrictions then there shouldn’t be ANY relaxation

Not now.

@bathsh3ba

I'm more worried by the implication non-essential shops won't be allowed to open till the 22nd. There will just be hordes of people trying to cram their Christmas shopping into two days, surely?

Yes, the idea of having shops and stuff open for only a couple of days before xmas is..concerning. Of course they will be jam packed. They will likely be busy regardless, but they do not need to be bursting.

The Grim Reaper disguised as Father Christmas.

I'm more worried by the implication non-essential shops won't be allowed to open till the 22nd.

Has this been confirmed? I assumed they would reopen when the lockdown was lifted.