Would you become vegetarian to prevent future viruses transmitting to humans

[Welikebeingcosy]

Just a curious thought- would you become vegetarian if it prevented animals from being in close contact in huge numbers to humans?

Yes or No, and why?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I can’t imagine a scenario in which this would make sense. Firstly surely everyone would have to be vegan rather than vegetarian. Secondly stocking animals at lower density, free range, would likely have the same effect. I can’t imagine the risks of a Lake District sheep virus are anything like the risks of one from indoor reared pork.

Would I support stricter animal welfare regulations and a ban on intensive animal farming even if it meant I would have to significantly cut down my meat and dairy intake- yes. (I try to only eat high welfare meat but I admit I am not as scrupulous as I could be.)

I like the second part! I am a veggie but don't think meat should be banned in the whole world, exact what PP said!

Yes to vegetarian

No to vegan

@movingonup20

No because I like meat. I buy ethically sourced British meat mostly from farms within 20 miles from here, full traceability by my butcher. Obviously eating out or the occasional ready meal isn't as good but I do my best and pay for that too

I'm vegetarian and eat a lot of vegan food but do think this is the way to go! Well done

But this is a purely hypothetical question.

No. I think as mammals we are naturally driven and designed to eat meat.

Humans aren’t “designed”

I would. I don’t eat much meat anyway though.

No, but I can see pushing for industrial agricultural and food sale law changes that would reduce overcrowding to reduce risks if there was good evidence that it would help. This may include encouraging people who can to consume less intensely-farmed animal products and prices going up on some products which would also likely cause a reduction in some areas. This would need to be counter-balanced by investment in other types of agriculture to ensure people can have adequate nutrients. These are things many are already involved in - I know places that are working to diversify protein production in the UK.

I could also see pushing for changes in selling laws around certain riskier meats, but few of those are really eaten much in the UK, to my knowledge, so that would need to be an international effort and we would need strong evidence to pursue that path.

Not everyone can live well on a vegan diet - some can and really enjoy it, but not all. There are reasons the recommendations for chronic low appetite and some other health conditions include dietary recommendations with animal products in them. There are still communities that rely on traditional practices for food that includes animal consumption and I don't think they should be pressured to be vegan for the rest of us (not that that is what the OP is doing, but I could see certain eco charities like Greenpeace who have a history of doing this using the same reasoning).

I don't view 'everyone being veganism' as an ideal for this or any other reason, but I'm not sure an ideal exists, it's always going to be a balance of risks and benefits. I don't think anything as individualistic as some people going vegan will solve anything, I think it would just create different problems (which modern commercial veganism with foods flown all over the world has done). This needs work at more than the individual level.

No. Eating meat is not the problem it is our widespread exploitation of Nature that is the problem. I believe it’s possible to eat meat and other animal products and live in harmony with nature/treat it with respect.

@MangoFeverDream

This is silly. Wasn’t bubonic plague caused by rats/fleas from infected rats? Worst pandemic that we know of and it wasn’t from animal husbandry.

Yes and we've eliminated that factor by improving our living conditions and not living side by side with rats or other rodents.

www.msdvetmanual.com/public-health/zoonoses/emergence-and-reemergence-of-zoonotic-diseases

'Decreased genetic diversity may eliminate species, breeds, or individuals with innate resistance to a disease. The development of large-scale farms and food-processing facilities has led to the exposure of greater numbers of people to a contaminated food source. Increased mobility of people, animals, and goods allows diseases to spread quickly. Viruses that formerly died out after affecting small numbers of animals and/or people can now find many susceptible hosts within a short period'.

The main thing I found from this article is that mass breeding of animals reduces their variability to be able to evolve their immune systems over each generation to be able to naturally defend against new diseases mutating within their groups. So in a sense, the huge groups of animals actually become a funnel for new diseases to develop and pass onto humans.

Yes, viruses could find other ways to pass from animals to humans but not at a rate or risk large enough to not be combatted by the evolution of our immune systems, and without the farming, animals would have more chance of eliminating the viruses with their own immune systems.

No. I can’t. I have very complicated food requirements. I would actually love to be vegan but if I did that I would actually die due to lack of food.

Nope. Too partial to a bit of deep-fried crispy pangolin.

Yes and we've eliminated that factor by improving our living conditions and not living side by side with rats or other rodents.

Dont be so sure, every city has millions of rats living in it side by side with humans. London is estimated to have 7 million rats in it alone, or if you do the math every human in London is no more than 2m/6ft away from a rat.

Yes. I was veggie for 20 years. I eat meat a few times a year thanks to IBS and being busy. But as the dc's get older I'll be back on track.
The dc's have already been informed that I won't be buying much meat anymore, and they had very little anyway. They just wailed that as long as they could have bacon butties at school it would be ok.

The main thing I found from this article is that mass breeding of animals reduces their variability to be able to evolve their immune systems over each generation to be able to naturally defend against new diseases mutating within their groups. So in a sense, the huge groups of animals actually become a funnel for new diseases to develop and pass onto humans.

No. Decreased genetic diversity in a species leads to that species alone being more susceptible to getting sick from a new disease. It has no impact on whether that new disease will or won’t mutate to jump to yet another species.

Humans are part of nature, part of the natural world. We do not exist apart from it - never have and never will.

There is a deep disconnect to suggest we could somehow live separately from the natural world when it is part of us and we are part of it.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Yes and we've eliminated that factor by improving our living conditions and not living side by side with rats or other rodents.

Dont be so sure, every city has millions of rats living in it side by side with humans. London is estimated to have 7 million rats in it alone, or if you do the math every human in London is no more than 2m/6ft away from a rat.

Socially distanced though. Side by side means running through your home corridors and streets and alongside you as you walk to the local market, not safely hidden in sewers.

@PlanDeRaccordement

The main thing I found from this article is that mass breeding of animals reduces their variability to be able to evolve their immune systems over each generation to be able to naturally defend against new diseases mutating within their groups. So in a sense, the huge groups of animals actually become a funnel for new diseases to develop and pass onto humans.

No. Decreased genetic diversity in a species leads to that species alone being more susceptible to getting sick from a new disease. It has no impact on whether that new disease will or won’t mutate to jump to yet another species.

It does impact whether it gets wiped out or not before it has the chance to do so. The more susceptible that species is, the longer the disease has to be alive and learn how to mutate.

@user12743356664322

Humans are part of nature, part of the natural world. We do not exist apart from it - never have and never will.

There is a deep disconnect to suggest we could somehow live separately from the natural world when it is part of us and we are part of it.

So mass breeding is 'natural' to you? Not man manipulated or anything?

@movingonup20

No because I like meat. I buy ethically sourced British meat mostly from farms within 20 miles from here, full traceability by my butcher. Obviously eating out or the occasional ready meal isn't as good but I do my best and pay for that too

Same here, all our meat, eggs, milk are from local farms. Although my biggest take from this thread was from Also if you are wandering the countryside and a random duck comes close enough to you and sneezes on you to for some reason I thought ducks couldn't sneeze...

@pinkbalconyrailing

no, but reducing it - definitely

we have vastly reduced out animal product consumption after doing veganuary last year.
we now have vegetarian or vegan food 5 days a week. fish and low impact meat (mostly chicken or turkey) once a week each.

Whilst I wouldn't want to eat myself, I definitely respect this approach. When I was younger I had a housemate who grew up on a working farm. She was very aware of where cheap animal products come from and how they get to the table. She ate meat about 1-2 times a week, carefully sourced, and paid a realistic price for it. What I don't respect is the people who refuse to think about it because its inconvient (usually while claiming to be an animal lover) or the 'lol but bacon' brigade.

This article by farmer and nature writer John Lewis-Stempel talks about the disease risk to humans from factory farming.

I don't think eating meat per se is the problem, I don't eat (red) meat myself but I think eating sustainable meat products from local sources is better than eating substitutes flown around the world. However, factory and battery farming isn't good for anyone - animals, workers, end consumers. It would definitely be better if people massively reduced the amount of meat they ate and sought local producers of meat and animal products.

No.
(I’ve been vegetarian since 1993)