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Related: Lockdown Learning, discuss home schooling during lockdown.

France
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SheepandCow · 16/11/2020 22:40

France seems to be doing more to control and contain than us. Wasn't our first lockdown forced by Macron calling Boris?

If only he'd called again in September (when the UK government ignored SAGE advice).

In France schools are open - but everyone wears masks. All children over the age of 6.

Also people are required to show exemption certificates when going out (if asked) or face a fine.

Finally, the French have recognised that people with diabetes and/or cardiovascular conditions are extremely clinically vulnerable.

The French vaccination prioritisation sounds sensible. They're starting, like us, with care homes and healthcare staff. But then they'll do over 65s AND everyone at highest risk of serious illness or death. Including diabetes, cardiovascular conditions, and obesity. They then intend to prioritise by occupation. So security, transport, etc - jobs with the highest death rates.

I think it's time for Macron to give Boris another call (to issue some advice).

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SheepandCow · 16/11/2020 23:33

Also in France, I believe (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) that anybody can get a test. You don't have to have symptoms. They prioritise getting results back for symptomatic cases but will still do one for all who want it. So much more sensible. It means more cases will be caught and there's less likelihood of asymptomatic spread.

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fizzyp0p · 17/11/2020 01:10

So they are paying for the ECV to stay home then and not work? Must be a lot of people

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:16

@fizzyp0p

So they are paying for the ECV to stay home then and not work? Must be a lot of people

They advise work from home unless impossible. If you can't work from home, you can claim something if you feel your health prevents you from being able to work.

They're being more proactive with testing (anyone can have one symptoms or not) and masks in schools for anyone over 6, so perhaps some ECV feel safer if they do go in to work?
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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:18

I think they're more strictly enforcing their lockdown also. And testing all international arrivals at point of entry. Unlike us.

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:27

Have you seen how may cases they have a day

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:31

We have a higher death rate.

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:32

We have also done more testing than them , there death rate Is a little better but as all countries record slightly differently its hard fo tell

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:33

But you came on saying how much better they were doing when in reality they really aren't at presenf

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:33

There cases were down today so if that trend continues then yes maybe they are on the right track

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:34

@timeforanewstart

We have also done more testing than them , there death rate Is a little better but as all countries record slightly differently its hard fo tell

Not really.
You don't need testing to tell how many are in hospital or how many excess deaths.

France has a lot of cases (like us). But they're doing more to try to reduce those numbers. Why don't we do the same. It's all fairly simple and easy.
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Didkdt · 17/11/2020 01:37

France is a bigger mess than us of course they have to have more measures.
We have more vaccines so we can prioritise differently
I am ECV and working from home, my kids are at school. I feel like I'm dodging a bullet every day but so far it's OK. My dd loves school, my ds needs a lot of stuff school offers my dh needs to work. Yes I'm vulnerable and sometimes isolated but im doing it, it's my part to play.
Every government across the world has success and failings in this first global pandemic in social media times

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:38

Op why not use germany as a comparison to who has handled it better , france really aren't in a much better position

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:46

Oh my goodness! Yes I'd definitely choose Germany over France for how to deal with it. Merkel has handled things so well.

I think France is relevant now because they messed up like us. We should look to what they're doing to get themselves out of that mess. Every little helps. We've seen the news and all the threads about schools - how it's spreading in them. Why not do as the French are doing. Masks in all schools (except perhaps SEN) and easily available testing for asymptomatic people.

Also, very importantly, France is protecting all extremely clinically vulnerable. The French government Covid information notes includes people with diabetes and cardiovascular conditions. Here, people with diabetes have not been given the protection of shielding despite comprising such a high percentage of all the deaths.

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:50

Masks im not convinced on there cases have been high even with mask wearing , no idea what school cases are
And i can't find where it says france are paying for clinically vulnerable to stay at home , do you have a link ?

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 01:52

I don't think they're paying anyone to stay at home. They're saying to work from home unless impossible. If it's not possible to WFH people can claim some kind of benefit. I'll try to find the link.

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:53

Also if there testing is so easily available how comes we seem to of done more tests ? I agree we maybe need to look at other symptoms but at the same time be cautious . What criteria do you need in france to test then ?

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timeforanewstart · 17/11/2020 01:54

We are advising to wfh if possible as well though

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 02:00

I don't think there's any criteria for a test in France. It says anyone can have one but they prioritise (getting results back) for people with symptom (and I think essential jobs).

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 02:03

The French list of extremely clinically vulnerable (highest risk of serious illness or death):

Les personnes de plus de 65 ans
Les personnes atteintes d’une maladie chronique ou fragilisant leur système immunitaire (notamment antécédents cardiovasculaires, diabète et obésité, pathologies chroniques respiratoires, cancers, insuffisance rénale, cirrhose, splénectomie, drépanocytose…)
Les femmes enceintes au 3ème trimestre de grossesse.

We haven't included diabetes. Nor have we automatically included, I think, cardiovascular conditions.

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XiCi · 17/11/2020 07:05

I don't think they're paying anyone to stay at home. They're saying to work from home unless impossible. If it's not possible to WFH people can claim some kind of benefit
Exactly the same as the UK then

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Quartz2208 · 17/11/2020 07:40

Firstly I dont think they are doing that much better certainly not enough to make comparisions now

Secondly some of what you want to happen culturally just would not work over here such as exemptions etc. There is a reason it has never happened over here and it isnt Government incompetence

Its the same reason the US is in the state that it is in only even worse. Cultural norms play a role in all of this

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SheepandCow · 17/11/2020 22:53

@XiCi

I don't think they're paying anyone to stay at home. They're saying to work from home unless impossible. If it's not possible to WFH people can claim some kind of benefit
Exactly the same as the UK then

No.
Diabetes is not included (disgracefully) on the UK shielding list. Nor are all cardiovascular conditions.

In France it is rightly included on their extremely vulnerable list.
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BohemianDream · 17/11/2020 23:07

6 year old children shouldn't be wearing facemasks. This is not normal. I will not be travelling to France any time soon.
Where is this evidence that it is spreading in schools?
The day my child is forced to wear a mask in school is the day that he no longer attends. It is absolute madness. There has been no risk assesment at all.

Why do you want this? Why are we advocating for children to cover their faces?
It is not going to delay the spread, just normality.

This will be detrimental to childrens education and mental health.

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StCharlotte · 17/11/2020 23:20

So are you - or is someone close to you - diabetic and not able to wfh?

I'm diabetic and working in the office (but fortunately well protected) and for the sake of my sanity I'm clutching at this particular little straw from the Diabetes UK website:

If you have diabetes – regardless of what type you have – you are no more likely to catch coronavirus than anyone else. And the majority of people who do get coronavirus – whether they have diabetes or not – will have mild symptoms and don’t need to go into hospital.

Of course there are "buts" but I have to live my life.

The only other country I'd want to be in is NZ.

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