We should be aiming to vaccinate everybody, not just the over 50s

[ForBlueSkies]

I feel like this government is sleepwalking into yet another disaster.

Why is it that leaders of Australia, the USA and Germany have all gone on record the past few weeks stating that population wide vaccination is the goal, and yet our authorities claim only over 50s and the vulnerable will ever receive it?

25% of ICU beds are currently filled with under 50s. Many people who have underlying conditions this virus preys on don’t even know it, such as diabetes and hypertension. For example, a case mentioned in the NYT:

“Mr. Alvarado said his wife and three children under the age of 12 first showed symptoms, then he got it, too. By mid-October, Mr. Sierra Macias also fell sick and was admitted to a hospital, where he learned he had diabetes, in addition to high blood pressure. Things seemed to be improving, but Mr. Sierra Macias took a turn for the worse. He was 49.”

www.nytimes.com/2020/11/14/us/coronavirus-deaths.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

This is NOT an atypical case. I have a close friend in the US who is 30 and currently hospitalised with covid.

We must vaccinate our at risk groups first, of course, and it’s possible the vaccine is inappropriate/unnecessary for children, but in the long term the government’s goal should be to protect everybody.

They were aiming to vaccinate 1 million people a week, there may be need for a booster dose and possibly regular vaccination like the flu. 67 million people, 52 weeks in the year. Doesn't take a maths genius to figure that it might not be possible in the initial stages to vaccinate everyone. Yes over years with more investment in vaccine production, distribution and delivery it might be possible but not in the short term, whichever country you live in.

Why should "everyone" get vaccinated if the virus is not of high risk to everyone? We weaken our natural immune system by being excessively reliant on artificial intervention. Those with bodies better equipped to fight over this particular virus really don't need it.

@SnowmanDrinkingSnowballs

There is also the ethical issue of the UK taking enough vaccines to cover their whole population when less wealthy countries are unable to vaccinate their most vulnerable.

To be honest, I don't think that consideration is informing the decision-making of our leaders one iota, though you certainly have a point there.

It’s my understanding that Kate Bingham did say this but then she was criticised by other people involved who said it was not yet decided.

@Lemons1571

I don’t think this thread is about prioritisation though. Most won’t argue with the vulnerable groups being first. However, it’s also quite an ask to expect an obese 48 year old with well controlled diabetes, to flip from a slightly increased risk of icu, to normal, without being vaccinated.

Economy might guide this. If a lot of those in their 40’s are unvaccinated and still too nervous to get out there and spend, go back to offices with no sd, I expect the government will rethink. Given they’ve been frightening us all into our homes for a year, it is quite an ask!

Yes, exactly.

40 somethings in particular may well be reticent to be too economically active as the risks for them are still non-negligible.

I think that period when they expect everybody to go back to normal because the at risk groups are safe is going to be interesting. Presumably the virus will rip through the under 50s at that point. Which I find concerning as women in their 40s have been found to be most likely to suffer long covid.

We weaken our natural immune system by being excessively reliant on artificial intervention.

Fake news

Vaccines for not weaken your immune system.

@FTMF30

Why should "everyone" get vaccinated if the virus is not of high risk to everyone? We weaken our natural immune system by being excessively reliant on artificial intervention. Those with bodies better equipped to fight over this particular virus really don't need it.

You have no idea how vaccines work.

I worry about this too. As a woman in my 40s I feel like I have made a lot of sacrifices for other people who will have an end in sight now. But restrictions will be lifted and I will have to take my chances with long Covid 😕

Our local surgery confirm the gov plan is to vaccinate 40 million so presume that excludes some

Our local gp surgery shared a post online today saying they’ll confirm date ASAP but that they’ll be calling vulnerable groups early December with the rest expected to be done by mid 2021

They said gps offer 360 million gp appointments per year and they need 80 million just for vaccine (40x2 as two vaccinations a month apart) hence long timescale as they need to ensure they can fit normal gp appointments in too

So 40/67 million apparently if they’re right

They target the most vulnerable with the flu vaccine too.
It is not clear yet if covid needs to be a yearly thing
If so it will be a mammoth task alongside the flu vaccine
In this case i am sure only the most vulnerable will be targeted

My niece and my DDs who are all in their 20s have said that they don't think they would want the vaccination. They are a bit concerned that the longer term risks haven't been researched yet and would prefer to wait to see how that pans out. My 80 yo DM on the other hand says she will be first in line for it because she hasn't got time to spare and she isn't so worried about the risks. I'm guessing there might be a lot of younger people, who might not want it immediately.

its just kids and teachers who dont need the vaccine......according to the government who think the virus walks away from schools and skirts rounds the edge

if i was in charge i would be getting those teachers vaccinated in the first round!

KIds not getting it - just spoke to gp

Over 18 only

The UK is definitely taking a risk here with its strategy - but like others said, it’s too early to judge when we don’t have full data about the efficacy of the different vaccines.

@ForBlueSkies, do you want compulsory vaccination?
Legally required with criminal or civil penalties... or maybe just penalties if anyone leaves their home unvaccinated.
What about people who are not supposed to receive vaccines, medically contra-indicated - should they be penalised too?

You said "everybody"

Whether or not they vaccinate healthy 30 year olds will depend on how effective it is, how long it lasts, side effects and yes cost. The priority is the over 50's and those with underlying health problems, that's priority but not necessarily the only people.

I'm in my 30s with a very rare disability and even my consultant doesn't know what the effects of Covid would be. I know there's an element of randomness for everyone with Covid but knowing the precautions I've had to take my whole life and the way I suffered when I got swine flu, I really, really don't rate my chances with Covid. But, as my disability is very rare and not on the sheilding list I'll be unlikely to get vaccinated for a long time. I am trying to come to terms with how limited my life is going to be from now on, even when things are "back to normal" for other people. It's given me some really dark thoughts over the last month. But of course I agree it should be prioritised properly.
I think I was just running on blind hope and I feel like it's been snatched away from me .

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

It’s my understanding that Kate Bingham did say this but then she was criticised by other people involved who said it was not yet decided.

Yes this was my understanding as well. There's been a few times she's said something different to the other experts and various ministers. I've started to take what she says with a pinch of salt.

There isn't actually even a working one yet that has met all the hurdles and it will take a long time to roll out and I an not sure if any are actually approved for children.
Plus the one closest to being realised there may cone a second more thar is better / easier to distrubute
We should consider our self lucky we live in a country thar can afford vaccines for all many don't have that luxury

@Ginogineli

KIds not getting it - just spoke to gp

Over 18 only

Testing is being extended to those aged 12 and over, so it might roll out to older DC idc

But right now UK has 40 million doses on order, which means 20million people can be vaccinated. So until further batches are made, or one of the other candidate vaccines passes testing, then we simply can't immunise everyone.

It's possibly not going to cover all the over 50s. On the current plan, it'll take 14 million of those doses to get down the priority categories to cover all the CEV. Then the next category is vulnerable and I'm not sure how many people might be in that one

@forblueskies they have gone on record to say that it is the goal in your words not that it will happen straightaway, I still thought not many are approved for children straight away either

@forblueskies do usa give vaccinations for free even ? As most healthcare you have to pay for or have insurance , not sure how it works for vaccinations though

Not sure?- go have stayed publically on their website that the uk gov plan on vaccinating 40 million people so 80 million vaccines (over 6 month period according to plans received) and specifically said over 18 only

My MP sends a weekly newsletter and it says the roll out to under 50's is undecided. The head of the vaccine task force has no business giving her view to the press when the simple reality is a decision can't be made until they know the success of trials for the other vaccines the government has purchased.

I agree with @cathyandclare, the government haven't yet got this wrong. It just takes time to have enough trial data from the multiple vaccine teams to make a decision.

[quote timeforanewstart]@forblueskies do usa give vaccinations for free even ? As most healthcare you have to pay for or have insurance , not sure how it works for vaccinations though [/quote]
Biden said in his speech as president elect that he will make sure everyone has it for free.