Case in bubble, but only close contacts isolating

[AlexaShutUp]

There has been a confirmed case in dd's year group. There are 160 of them but they are treated as one bubble due to being in GCSE year/mixed classes. There is no social distancing in school, and no ventilation in some of the classrooms, so probably quite high chance of transmission within the bubble.

I had assumed that a positive case would mean the whole bubble having to isolate, but it seems that they're isolating "close contacts" only. I assume that this means those kids who sit near the confirmed cases in class and the friends that they hang out with at lunch etc. However, it doesn't seem to account for close contact in the very crowded corridors etc, though I guess most (not all) of the kids will be wearing masks as they move around the school.

I can see the logic in identifying certain kids who need to isolate while the rest of the bubble cracks on, and I appreciate that the school is no doubt trying to minimise the educational impact of any confirmed cases, but I'm surprised as I thought the whole point of the bubble system was that everyone would isolate if one went down. Have I got this wrong? Would be interested to know how other schools are managing this.

I'm happy that dd can stay in school, just a bit concerned that contacts of the confirmed case might have been missed and that keeping them all in school could spread it further. DH and I are both in the vulnerable category, so just a bit nervous, but perhaps I have just misunderstood how the whole bubble thing is supposed to work?

I just got the message there'd been a case at my daughter's small private school today also. My daughter says it's her year group which is one bubble yr 13 and the 7-11 being the other 2 bubbles. Only close prolonged contacts isolating there. The entire bubbles isolating stopped a long time ago I believe.

It is tricky in secondary schools. Are they wearing masks in corridors? The kids are likely to be in close contact in corridors for just a couple of minutes. Data shows that they have to be in close contact for around 10 minutes in order to be at risk of catching it, I think.

Schools don't usually make that kind of decisions themselves. They are in consultation with local health authorities who work it out on a case by case situation.

The school will speak to the person who has tested positive and see who he/she had lunch with, has been in close contact with.

And also, in corridors, all year groups are out together at one point during the day.

It's not the school's decision. The DfE took over from Public Health England in deciding who schools would send home and funnily enough, when non-health people took over, suddenly the number of kids sent home plummeted.

The bubble thing is now basically being ignored and only kids who were sat next to those kids in class are being sent home (plus friends from lunchtime) unless there is a reason that those close contacts cannot be 'reliably' identified (e.g. unsupervised wet break, or pupil in school after the positive test).

You are absolutely right that contacts might have been missed and there could well be further spread, particularly as most children do not display symptoms that would get them a test.

Yes it was said by the dfe that whole bubbles would isolate when there was a confirmed case in schools when they reopened.
Now that schools have had so many cases it seems they no longer think this is viable so only send home close contacts.
You were right in originally thinking this but it has changed.
And as you say it is probably very likely cases are being missed this way for all the reasons you point out.

Oh and also most schools have strict seating plan and can work out very quickly who is sitting next to who, in every class.

That’s become the standard in schools, and there will be a member of staff who has decided which pupils were close contacts.

My daughter's year 13 bubble has a similar situation.
One case led to 20 close contacts being sent home, and apparently if there were to be 3 positives from this case, then the whole year will be sent home. So I am assuming it's a proportionate thing 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s sensible. Realistically, only a few out of the 160 will be at risk.

@starrynight19 the individual schools don't make that kind of decisions. It is under the advise of local health authorities.

Close contact is defined as 15 mins or more within 2m I think. Presumably no one is in the corridor for 15 mins. This is proportionate I think. My 4yo is in a bubble of c100 children but they have to isolate the lot as they mix freely.

That’s sensible.

It's really not sensible. We know from universities that when there are positive cases in young people, there will be many more cases around them that are asymptomatic. By only sending home the close contacts of a positive case, they are ignoring the asymptomatic cases that will continue to spread it throughout the year group.

There should be testing in schools when there is a positive case to make sure the asymptomatic ones are caught.

Queenblueberries yes I am aware that followed my point about the dfe making the decision it wasn’t viable , sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Close contact is defined as 15 mins or more within 2m I think.

How safe would you feel having been at 2.1m for an hour with a positive case in a poorly ventilated room with no mask? We know in those scenarios it can spread further than 2m.

That's fine, it's just that some people think that it's all down to the head teacher to decide, and it's really not. HT are getting a lot of stick right now because of some of the decisions made, when really it's not made by them... I work in a school and the number of calls from individual parents who dispute the decisions is incredible, because they think it's the school's decision.

Same happened in our school, while the one tmin the next town sent the whole year home. Similar year sizes, same week. Not sure who is making those decisions but I thought close contacts was more practical and there have been no more cases so it was fine.

Yes, SLT examine seating plans and just send home close contacts. Front row now wear masks too.

Thanks all for clarifying. I had obviously missed the change in approach regarding the bubbles. I guess we'll just have to hope for the best.

Interesting to know that the decision is out of the school's hands. I hope those who are making the judgements on these things know what they are doing but I am afraid I do not have confidence in the DfE at all.

Yep this is how our local schools are doing it, mine have so far not been close enough contacts but both have had friends told to isolate.

It must be a very worrying situation for teachers and other school staff, and very difficult if the school's leadership team are not able to take their own decisions about how to keep everyone safe.

You didn't miss the change in approach regarding bubbles, it hasn't been advertised. It was done on the quiet in September just after the government had concluded their 'Schools are safe, kids will be in protective bubbles' campaign.

Because the change hasn't been advertised, there haven't been any amendments made to risk assessments to account for it. Things like 'kids can share a class set of glue because they're in the same bubble' and 'kids can hand out worksheets to each other because they're in the same bubble' and 'we don't need to clean desks between classes because they're in the same bubble' are happening in schools and actually, the bubble is bobbins.

Parents were basically lied to.

Because the change hasn't been advertised, there haven't been any amendments made to risk assessments to account for it.

That's terrible, noblegiraffe. It is really shocking that there is such little regard for the safety of school staff and children who might have vulnerable family members.

Certainly in Scotland close contacts only but overall there is work looking at the patterns of cases and we arent seeing many cases in wider groups who were not sent home so it looks like they are getting it about right.

wowwwww. Hold your horses there.

Noblegiraffe has one perspective. She has been extremely alarmist on many boards. Try and keep a balanced view on this.

Many schools go way beyond what is expected by the government. We have had face masks in corridors from the start, have two food halls, scattered start/break/lunch and everything in between, fixed seating plans, the teachers have plexiglax boards between themselves and pupils, teachers can wear masks to teach if they wish, pupils are reminded when they walk in every class to use handgel, to put on their masks before going out of lesson, we have a rota of cleaners in school all day/starting early/working late.

we arent seeing many cases in wider groups

Are they actually testing the wider group because not 'seeing' cases is meaningless in kids.

Look what happened when they mass-tested universities.

Noblegiraffe has one perspective. She has been extremely alarmist on many boards

Let's clarify this. 'Extremely alarmist' means 'posting publicly available data about the sharp rise in infection rates in secondary schools'.

If the data appears alarming, that's not my fault.