The lack of empathy and humanity for other human beings exposed in this pandemic

[HumanFemale1]

I know I'm not the only one who noticed this but I just wanted to vent really and talk about.

A friend shared with me that they are terrified of venting about their mental health issues caused by the lockdown because every time they tried venting they were shamed and told they are selfish for caring about anything else than people dying (of covid)

Another friend called my thinking 'dangerous' when I said I think the govts approach should balance covid with all the negative aspects of lockdown such as job losses, isolation etc.

This idea that only covid matters and anyone who is negatively impacted by lockdown and restrictions just needs to suck it up is baffling.

I wanted to ask for your opinions on whether you think people in general lack empathy towards other and this pandemic just exposed it or is it something about this pandemic that brings this out in people?

Happily, in real life, people are kinder. My local FB groups have been amazing, helping people out.

I suppose also, no matter what kind of thoughts you harbour on the inside, you're unlikely to actually tell your 85 year old neighbour that you hold her accountable for the fact there's a lockdown and she should be dead anyway, or at least hand her nice house over to you and go and live in a bedsit.

It's what cowards do, isn't it? Like the school bully rarely acts without their mates standing behind them filming, Covid allows the vile thoughts of the vilest people to come spewing out on an anonymous forum. They think like that in real life, but I doubt they'd say it.

Of course, on here t'was ever thus. Parents of disabled children had to fight to have their threads not visible in active, BAME mumsnetters have entire forums on Reddit dedicated to them, etc etc.

You see lots of those extreme views on here, but not in real life.

I agree OP

And no I don’t want elderly people to die. They have been hit the most with isolation. Especially people in care homes with dementia- there has been a shocking acceleration in decline for them.

My friend owns two bars. They are looking at bankruptcy and will lose their home also causing their staff to lose their jobs.

It’s been awful.

COVID is a terrible illness but it’s not the U.K.s biggest killer. We really have thrown the baby out with the bath water

Peoples reactions vary due to how this pandemic is affecting them personally and that's not selfish god i hate that word that's natural. Its human instinct to protect our own first. Doesn't mean you arent empathetic to others though.

You are wrong. The pandemic exposed how much people want to help others.

@PersonaNonGarter

You are wrong. The pandemic exposed how much people want to help others.

That's your view, I'm certainly seeing people concentrating on their own families and their own needs over others, and who can blame them.

I think it's hard for some people to look outside their own experience or situation.and I think it has encouraged people to judge others.
A poster on here had both her children tested for covid (as they had coughs). One was negative, the other test result took ages, she was worried about taking more time of work and not being paid. She was called selfish for wondering whether, after about 6 days and the child was no longer unwell whether she should just assume it was negative.

And actually it's kind of human nature (and other animals) to be selfish - it's a survival thing. I've seen on other posts people waiting 8 days for a negative test result. A lot of people wont be able to afford to do that especially if it happens multiple times. They might prioritise going to work and being able to pay bills, put food on the table, especially if they have lost income in the first lockdown. That might be selfish wrt the government guidelines and trying to protect others but who wouldnt try to feed their children or keep a roof over their head?

@porcupineinwaiting

Let people get covid and die but don't close any businesses because I spent all my money and never saved any so I need a regular income.

Have you ever had to live off your savings for any prolonged period of time?

I had hyperemesis which lasted the whole pregnancy. My employer refused to pay SSP and then refused to pay SMP despite me meeting the qualifying criteria for both. It went to dispute with HMRC and I finally got paid all that was outstanding in one lump sum when my DD was 3 months old. I had good savings (thousands saved and invested) I was very frugal (and felt too shit to do much anyway) but the rate at which I burnt through my savings compared to the time it took to build it up was terrifying.

You need to have done serious empathy for people in financial difficulty.

Given the huge amount of effort that scientists and governments and the NHS are putting in to balance needs of covid patients, the economy and other patients, I think the OP isn't complaining about lack of empathy at all, but about people reaching different balances and choices in complex situations

There is lack of empathy at times, especially the ageist lock up the elderly and let me get on with my life brigade, who are clearly placing their mental health above that of the more vulnerable

O op you mean stuff like why should my child miss his sport for 4 week just to stop some old person from dying when they have lived there life?
Let the vulnerable stay at home temporarily to prevent us normal people from being locked up!
I am still going to see x y and z and not follow the rules as I only care about my family.
O there is a big outbreak in a care home. I bet they just had the flu jab.
3 members of the same family died of COVID even though they were close to shielding. O they don't healthy and had pre existing conditions and if they don't go out much they must be lacking in vitamin D.
The last two were said by a now ex friend.
You see op people tend to notice and remember the lack of empathy which affects them.
So yes there is a definite lack of empathy and humanity on all sides.
Incidentally my ecv dh is supposed to be shieding but ut is pretty pointless when our 3 dds are in massive school bubbles. O wait 1 is at school. The other two are now self isolating as they were in close contact with at least one case.

O and the whole bubbles haven't closed so they must be close contacts.

It's not about COVID being more important than everything else @DownstairsMixUp it's about it having the potential to overwhelm everything else.

It's a numbers game. Even if you dont give a monkeys about people catching and dying of COVID then you can see that normal life cant just resume if we ignore it.

It makes people sick. Then they need time off so their jobs are disrupted. This is very pertinent in schools - you can keep them open but that's of limited use educationally if many of the teachers are off sick.

If lots of nhs staff are sick, then nhs services wont function properly. If the beds are full, it's hard to arrange to treat other things. If you need treatment for other things - heart disease, cancer, dialysis, hip replacements - then you need to be able to receive that without contracting covid at the same time.

When rates of infection are high to the point that hospitals are overflowing people dont carry on with their normal activities regardless. They decide to stay home instead, so businesses suffer. Pandemics impact economies whether you make any attempt to control them or not.

Another friend called my thinking 'dangerous' when I said I think the govts approach should balance covid with all the negative aspects of lockdown such as job losses, isolation etc

Is that not what the Govt are doing by having a mini lockdown?

It's either brought out the best or worst in people I think.

So much finger pointing. Total misunderstanding of science and people insisting they are perfect and everyone else is the cause.

Luckily in my community I have seen some real kindness.

Watching hospital and the series with judge Rinder in last night reminded me that there are some evil people in this world who would take finger pointing at the drop of a hat with no humanity and no critical thinking. But also there are people who live to help.

The former terrify me. Look at civil wars. Always so many who would kill on a flip of a coin because they are better, they are superior, they are intolerant. They just need the excuse to validate the hate

It's a numbers game. Even if you dont give a monkeys about people catching and dying of COVID then you can see that normal life cant just resume if we ignore it

This is a perfect example. If you don’t agree to everything bring forsaken in the name of Covid - then you don’t give a shit if people die.

It’s wrong and polarised to think this way. There is a middle ground. And we needed to explore safer ways and look at the evidence before proclaiming the sky was falling in.

People called for ‘protect the vulnerable’ but when other people started saying ‘actually the vulnerable are not doing to good under the methods we are using’ - they are still accused of being selfish and wanting people to die. Cancer patients, dementia patients all have been thrown under the bus ‘to protect the vulnerable’ and I can tell you - they might have been protected from catching covid but their life has probably been cut short because of the knee jerk reaction towards it.

I agree entirely.

Even on this thread people are equating talking about one's own mental health with breaking the rules and spreading covid.

I lost my dad this year and my mum has cancer. She's abroad and I can't see her.

My mental health has absolutely tanked and I have struggled. I still however obey the rules.

It's horrible that people with mental health (or financial, or other,) issues are told just to shut up about them.

I think covid has brought out two extremes those that hunker down in their bubbles and those who are helping the community. We are a mix of both but sometimes called to help the community and can’t do as much as is required of us as unbeknownst to others we are both high risk - my husband could possibly be a shielder as over lockdown he was diagnosed with a lung condition that could get progressively worse.

I have an auto immune condition that on the face of it is being treated but I also have other risk factors (BAME and obesity) therefore I’m careful. I think there are places people should go for help and people ranting about the economy over covid is insensitive.

We have a number of what were shielders in the old pandemic having a real tough time of it mentally.

There is a fair amount of “I’m all right Jack”. Not all of the time, necessarily, some have empathy for some things but not others. It’s human nature I suppose. It’s sad for me to see that the disabled get treated badly though and the majority non-disabled just ignore it, as it doesn’t affect them.

The following petition would have thousands of signatures if it was for UC claimants for example.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/318691

Take 2 minutes to sign it and make the U.K. a slightly fairer place.

"I also think that MN responses have changed a lot over the months - really it was quite impossible back in March/April when I think the OP might have been true of this site"

I think that is probably true. I remember threads such as someone wanting to take their disabled child to the beach to calm them down (which they were legally permitted to do) and a large number of people - a minority on the thread but still a significant number- piling on and telling the poster they were being selfish, there should be no exceptions. You don't see so much of that now.

It’s not that only Covid matters, but we need to control it so we can live as normally as possible with Covid in circulation.

I think the government is trying to balance it with their Tier systems for example.

I think there is a difference between people who only care about their own needs and those who look at things more holistically. It doesn’t mean that the latter group has it easy or doesn’t recognise issues like job losses, mental health, anxiety on the population.

From my experience the pandemic has brought out some amazing generosity and goodwill. My street organised a whatsapp group during the first week of lockdown where people were offering to collect medication, pick up shopping, check in on vulnerable people and generally look out for each other. My sports club organised a group of volunteers to prepare drop off meals, make face masks and keep an eye on our elderly members even if it was just a chat at the front gate. Yes, there have been some twats but I have mostly seen positive stories.

Well people are going to be more scared of the threat that could affect them. Corona could potentially kill anyone, no one knows, so obviously people will worry about that more than someone else's mental health, job etc. Unfortunately it's human nature to think of yourself before others. Its self preservation.