Christmas rule breaking and policing

[BuffaloCauliflower]

This isn’t a debate about what rules there should be or not be at Christmas, and whether or not people should or shouldn’t break them, but let’s assume that it’s likely we’ll be back to some form of ‘the rule of 6’ for Christmas, maybe not including children in the number, maybe it’ll be 8 instead of 6, who knows, but its unlikely to be the normal course of events.

In practice, many people will break these rules to at least some extent, and is there really any chance of it being policed anyway? The police literally won’t have the resources to go and check all the houses that may have too many people in them and it would be a waste of their time And resources anyway when I’m sure they’ll be needed more elsewhere. Perhaps if there’s a massive party somewhere it might be worth it. But ultimately there will be no policing of the rules so it’ll be up to each person/household what they choose to do anyway surely?

[quote BuffaloCauliflower]@EleanorShell I keep hearing this argument but it doesn’t hold, we were in full lockdown for Easter which from a religious perspective is much more important to Christians than Christmas. We Christians also missed our festival. Christmas is a bit different, it’s not religious to many perhaps most people, and is also celebrated in some way by people of many different religions. My Hindu family members celebrate Christmas. Plus less than 10% of the country are a religion that’s not Christian so it’s a very different scale of impact.[/quote]
This is a good point. Christmas has become a completely different festival than its religious origins. Of course there are people who attend church on christmas day and celebrate it for religious reasons. But most people celebrate it just for fun.

Same as everyone letting off fireworks on bonfire night presumably wasn't actually celebrating burning Catholics and kids carving pumpkins on halloween aren't actually trying to ward off evil spirits.

For example, DH is working from home, I’m
on maternity, getting everything delivered, if we see family and then go home there’s not much chance of further spread. Someone who needs to travel on public transport to work every day there is. I think this is why people want to do more individual risk assessing about things like Christmas gatherings.

So, what you’re saying is those who’ve worked from home and popped to the shops can mix for Christmas, but those who’ve had to travel to work, doctors, nurses hospital staff, police, fire and ambulance, plus the key workers in the shops can all fuck of and sit at home alone?

AND 30 years doing the same Christmas, can’t you just stay home and entertain yourselves for a day?

I expect you will still want a hospital bed though when your children pass to your Dp’s though.

Bore off, mate. Do you really like having 7 people from 2 houses is more of a risk than 6 people from 2 households? Or indeed 6 people from 6 households. Both of which would be allowed.

Incidentally, if the kids did pass anything to my parents there is a greater than 99% chance they would be fine.

Three police officers I have spoken to said they will refuse to police this. They will be able to conscientiously object apparently.

I'm starting to feel like were the only family on earth where this doesnt effect anything, we never have people over or go out on xmas day... its litrally the one day of the year to lounge around as a nuclear family in your own home and enjoy your own little family.
I would say you're quite unusual. Everyone I know sees their parents or other family members. I spend time with my "own little family" every day of the year.

and howcome it has to be that specific day? like xmas day is the only day you can ever see family? just hold off a big family gathering until its safe
Well we havent been able to see family (without social distancing) since March. I expect if we were able to see them every day except Christmas then nobody would mind, but we can't see them on Christmas OR any other day.

@BluebellsGreenbells
AND 30 years doing the same Christmas, can’t you just stay home and entertain yourselves for a day? Why would I want to do that? Clearly lots of people don’t enjoy Christmas and don’t like their families, that’s fine for you but stop trying to act like some of us are weird for actually giving a shit about our families and our traditions. A couple of years ago my Dad died suddenly the day after Boxing Day, any Christmas could be any of our lasts and actually being with my family is important to me, and Christmas is important to all of us. I can only imagine others have very boring, pointless Christmasses to care so little. I’m glad I’m not you.

And no, I’m not saying in the least that people who’ve worked those jobs should just stay home alone. I’m saying there are greater risks for some people mixing than others, which there is.

@Hercwasonaroll

Three police officers I have spoken to said they will refuse to police this. They will be able to conscientiously object apparently.

Good, I’m glad. It’s a waste of their time.

The Army breaking up Christmas dinner? People being paid to inform on their neighbours?

I might move to North Korea, it's probably a bit more chilled out.

Jesus.....to think I am living in a time when people can't see their family at Christmas. And some twats on here act like the stasi. It's just beyond belief. Fuck me.

I expect you will still want a hospital bed though when your children pass to your Dp’s though.

Are you seriously suggesting that if her DH stayed at home (making the group number six) that thie would prevent any infected children passing covid to their grandparents??

I can only imagine others have very boring, pointless Christmasses to care so little

Or they've never had the opportunity to have the big family Christmas that you have because their families have always worked in 24/7/365 jobs like the police, healthcare, fire service and in our family, undertakers and then retail and hospitality too. There's usually someone missing at a family event, even if the majority can make it, it's damned near impossible to find a day where we're all together over Christmas because of the higher demands on some of the services/jobs we work in.

I never had a Christmas growing up with both my parents together for the day, one if not both were working at least a portion of the day.
That's why it's not such a big deal to me, I've grown up with the idea of having beans on toast after a 12 hour shift on Christmas Day is just the way it is some years, that it's not a big deal to not have your parents at home on Christmas Day. That's a testament to my parents and grandparents and how they treated that rather than pointless.
Some people need to work at Christmas.

Yes. Policing is only ever by consent at the best of times - the only reason society works at all is because a majority abide by its rules - so it is impossible to arrest everyone breaking Coronavirus legislation. That is presumably why the government would like people to police each other and therefore why the media has been encouraging division with tales of rule-breaking.

I think they should relax the rules for Christmas but enforce a isolation period for anyone that comes into the U.K. I would have stopped all flights in/out a while ago and kept the virus in house. There’s far too many people coming into the country unchecked and not isolating

Why would I want to do that? Clearly lots of people don’t enjoy Christmas and don’t like their families, that’s fine for you but stop trying to act like some of us are weird for actually giving a shit about our families and our traditions. A couple of years ago my Dad died suddenly the day after Boxing Day, any Christmas could be any of our lasts and actually being with my family is important to me, and Christmas is important to all of us. I can only imagine others have very boring, pointless Christmasses to care so little. I’m glad I’m not you

Well aren’t you charming? You clearly need a crowd to dilute the vile attitude towards others over Christmas of all celebrations.

I am more than happy to see my family and spend time with them over Christmas.

However with a world wide pandemic in more than happy to think of the bigger picture and keep those I love safe and well.

We have decided no gifts this year because I don’t want anyone queueing in the shops for gifts. We have also decided to have a big gathering later in the year to protect my parents and grandparents who are over 100.

We suck it up to keep them safe - that’s the opposite of selfish.

Are lots of people genuinely comfortable with their children, who are in school all week, being in prolonged close contact with elderly relatives?

I'm not and that isn't because the rules say not to, it's because if that socialising caused serious illness or worse to someone I love I'd never forgive myself.

Some people seem to view the rules as simply something they need to find a way around and have lost sight of why there are restrictions in the first place.

@MoodieMare and I completely appreciate that. But it doesn’t seem fair that those for whom Christmas is no big deal want to insist it should be no big deal for everyone else too

@Lindy2 I don’t have school age children or elderly relatives.

I'm starting to feel like were the only family on earth where this doesnt effect anything, we never have people over or go out on xmas day... its litrally the one day of the year to lounge around as a nuclear family in your own home and enjoy your own little family

You spend one day a year with the people you live with?!

Are lots of people genuinely comfortable with their children, who are in school all week, being in prolonged close contact with elderly relatives?

I dont think it is purely my decision to make. If my elderly relatives want to spend time with my children, why should I stop them? I would feel more guilty depriving them of time spent with their great grandchildren, on what could realistically be their last Christmas whether they catch covid or not.

I'm not and that isn't because the rules say not to, it's because if that socialising caused serious illness or worse to someone I love I'd never forgive myself.
Did you stay away from family every year then, in case you had the flu? Or a cold or other contagious disease. Those can cause deaths of elderly people too.

Agree windchimetinkle some properly vile characters on here. Incentivising snitching on your neighbours?! I mean - jfc.

I also think this year is a really, really weird time to trot out the 'why do you need to see your family on one day a year?' line. I haven't been legally allowed to see my parents and my brother's family at the same time since March; I'm not saying I'll do so at Christmas if it's not allowed, but I also don't see why I'm supposed to pretend it won't be sad and shit that I can't. My parents didn't see either of their grandchildren on their birthday this year, so they'll be particularly sad not to see them on Christmas day either. I actually like my family a lot (I even like my in-laws, which I know is unheard of on MN!) so I've missed them a lot this year. I don't particularly want Christmas just the three of us any year - I love the hustle and bustle of a big family Christmas, and I love hosting it - but this year I really, really feel like we've had more than enough 'just us' days! Again, I'm not saying any of this is reason to dictate health policy, but I don't see why so many people are insistent that it's somehow wrong or selfish to be a bit sad about it; I can respect and follow legislation to limit viral spread without being actively pleased about it.

Unlike the first lockdown, nobody here is taking any notice of this one - streets are busier than before the lockdown start,

The virus is transmitted between people. It takes two to tango - if you don't wish to live your life, then stay at home - the rest of the consenting risk takers will just take the risk anyway.

In a free country, we should never be allowing a government to tell people to stay at home or who they can meet. People should want to prevent the spread, and advice should be given, but like many people (especially in this case), I don't believe in taking any notice of being told to restrict my personal freedoms for the benefit of someone else - but I would have done if asked nicely.

It's the first time in my life I now believe in a written constitution that means parliament cannot take away basic freedoms without 90% of the population agreeing.

This viruses just a natural occurrence like many other situations - we need to let it run its course.

Are lots of people genuinely comfortable with their children, who are in school all week, being in prolonged close contact with elderly relatives?

My elderly relatives are desperate to see their great grandchildren. They've missed months of them and barely seen them grow up. This could be their last Christmas corona or not. Why are we hellbent on infantilising the elderly? They can make their own decisions.

What the hell - the poster suggesting a guest at a Christmas lunch in breach should report their host and get a cut of the fine!!! Imagine! That would be them bloody banned for life from any future Christmas!

The virus is transmitted between people. It takes two to tango - if you don't wish to live your life, then stay at home - the rest of the consenting risk takers will just take the risk anyway

Lovely, are you making that choice for all the health service who you’d hope will treat you or your family? Are you making that choice for the shop workers who stack the shelves so you can eat? Are you deciding you don’t give a shit about the carers who tend to those elderly people you sit next to on the bus or the bar staff because you want a gin?

No wonder Christmas is in tatters and it’s not the government