My workplace insists they can stay open.

[XmasIsComming]

I work somewhere that sells a lot of non essential items. We also have an area of gardening/diy within the store.

I have been informed that the whole store will remain open during lockdown.

We closed during the first lockdown.
Apparently this time our business doesn't have to close.

I think if a lot of businesses are doing this then it's not going to be a very effective lockdown.

My place of work stayed open throughout lockdown but many of our counterparts throughout Europe closed

In theory we are allowed to stay open as the work we do is essential but that essential work wasn't coming in. The work that was being done behind closed doors wasn't essential

I've always thought it's the director trying to make himself look good to head office in Europe

I'm already sad at the number of shops in our local town that have closed since April. If they can do it, and do it safely, and it keeps them going, fair enough.

There were lots of shops that decided to close in the first lockdown even though they could legally stay open.

Its more that businesses don't see the same health and safety risk to their own workers (for whom they are liable) and can argue that they adhere to safe working practices they have brought in since the 1st lockdown. Plus they desparately need the money to keep going and can't afford to shut a second time.

So it appears now that the restrictions are much more lax but thats not necessarily the case. Remember when everything shut in March, there weren't rules on masks, screens, 2m stickers and traffic light systems in place in the same way.

Have any of the employees in your shop develop the virus so far?
If nobody has been affected and you are provided by adequate protection (mask, hand sanitisers, screens at the tills maybe) and customers are told to wear masks on your premises I don't really see what the problem is...

If legally the shop can remain open then it should do so. If your boss is going against the lockdown rules though that's a different story...and I assume the local council/police can intervene and force them to shut.

Frankly shutting most shops is such a red herring anyway when most infections seem to be linked to schools and university and some hospitality premises, but not shops. Another pointless rule as far as I am concerned.

You may not have a job to return to OP if they shut shop again.

Yes people should only leave their house for essentials but if the shops are open people will go there. Not like there's anything else to do. Plus we've proved again and again that we just can't follow simple rules.

Transmission has been proved to occur mainly in schools, universities, homes and workplaces where people are in close proximity for extended periods, not in shops. There's no need to close most shops.

@Bluntness100

i would want staff to be furloughed if the shop is not essential

Sure, but if legally they can stay open ans can do so safely then it is better they do so.

Not in terms of suppressing the virus, no.

We can't prioritise the economy without tackling Covid, because Covid is suppressing economic activity and costing a lot itself.

@goldenharvest

Transmission has been proved to occur mainly in schools, universities, homes and workplaces where people are in close proximity for extended periods, not in shops. There's no need to close most shops.

Well yes I would advocate closing schools over shops personally, but I am in a minority of parents. If we won't close schools, we need to close everything else.

We can't carry on as we are, cases doubling, so we must do something.

I work for a store which is essential, although, we closed off some areas last time. This time the whole store is staying open. In the ideal world, I'd rather limit contact myself, but as we're on our second round of redundancies within six months, we need the trade.

Not in terms of suppressing the virus, no

The key word was safely. And you need to find a balance, you can’t suppress Covid at the cost of everything else.

@Bluntness100

Not in terms of suppressing the virus, no

The key word was safely. And you need to find a balance, you can’t suppress Covid at the cost of everything else.

Currently the UK is not suppressing Covid at very serious cost to everything else, so I respectfully disagree with your starting point.

We need to suppress asuch as we can, restart after.

Fannying about all summer got us nowhere.

It certainly feels as though the hive mindset around this lockdown is different. Back in March, many were genuinely terrified. This time around, in my part of the country at least, I don't know in real life a single person who is not more worried about the impact of lockdown than the impact of COVID. People just aren't as scared. The government's cried wolf too many times.

Currently the UK is not suppressing Covid at very serious cost to everything else, so I respectfully disagree with your starting point

Then yes we need to disagree, because the cost to the over all economy, the decimation of certain sectors, the unemployment the cost of furlough, the inability to treat other health conditions, people’s mental health impacts, to me, and millions of others, is considered a very serious cost indeed. If you do not think it’s serious then we agree to disagree.

We are over half way through our 2nd 'lockdown' here in NI. We had two weeks of school closures too, they went back this week. Pubs and restaurants are takeaway only, all hairdressers/beauty type places shut, gyms are open but no classes and no leisure activities like bowling are open.

The number of cases dropped quickly and has remained lower throughout, despite shops remaining open.... I just cannot see how they could be a big vector for transmission.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the numbers now that schools are open but hospitality remains shut.....

Anyway op, if they sell DIY stuff then of course they can open. I am sure you are delighted to know your company feel they still have a sustainable business, or I am sure they would have closed and accepted gov help.

Dentists can absolutely stay open. Mine is private and will be open. I’ve booked an appointment for a filling in 2 weeks. Have to pay for the ppe for it but I’m happy to in this climate so I get my tooth sorted!

@Bluntness100

Currently the UK is not suppressing Covid at very serious cost to everything else, so I respectfully disagree with your starting point

Then yes we need to disagree, because the cost to the over all economy, the decimation of certain sectors, the unemployment the cost of furlough, the inability to treat other health conditions, people’s mental health impacts, to me, and millions of others, is considered a very serious cost indeed. If you do not think it’s serious then we agree to disagree.

You have entirely misrepresented me, accidentally I'm sure.

I think those things are very serious indeed. The issue is they can not be addressed without suppressing Covid sufficiently to allow for a more full reopening of the economy. Believing otherwise is naive.

It is not economy or health, it can only be economy and health. This is widely promoted by the vast majority of serious economists and public health experts.

There's no route to economic recovery without tackling the virus properly.

I see dealing with Covid properly as the only route to getting back on our feet.

For what it's worth, my DH's work has dropped to zero since the first lockdown. I'm not just pontificating about other people's lives, I understand the economic situation acutely.

There's a lot of people on here who sound very disappointed by the lack of "proper" lockdown and that 4 weeks is not long enough.

You know you can always choose to seal yourselves in your houses with a mountain of bog roll for the next 5 years if you so choose?

Shops with infection control measures should be fine to reopen.
Maybe if the Government was a bit more on top of track and trace they'd have better data about where transmission is happening most and target intervention better.

@Juststopswimming

There's a lot of people on here who sound very disappointed by the lack of "proper" lockdown and that 4 weeks is not long enough.

You know you can always choose to seal yourselves in your houses with a mountain of bog roll for the next 5 years if you so choose?

This is a silly attempt to undermine other people without having a proper argument to make.

I'm disappointed my dh's business can't open, my kids clubs are stopped and people's cancer treatments (including someone close to me) are again under threat. More widely I'm disappointed we are facing more deaths this winter than in spring.

Suppressing the virus is a coherent approach.

People on the opposite side don't appear to know what they want.

The trouble is that viruses cant be suppressed long term. Also this particular virus has a less than 0.5% mortality rate.

The devastation caused by "proper lockdowns" is disproportionate to the threat currently faced.

The trouble is that viruses cant be suppressed long term

That's not the trouble. Nobody is trying to suppress it longterm.

The trouble is, if we do what we need to do in order to supress the virus for as long as we need to, the economy is ruined. If we save the economy, the NHS is overwhelmed. We're looking for the crossover in the venn diagram, but it's 2 separate circles, quite far apart.

We can't fund this pandemic.

There is no way to suppress this without killing everything else. We are already far on the way and the government is already being pushed to articulate the true cost of this, in terms of lives, financials, and everything in between.

Suppressing it properly means a complete shut down for an extensive period, and we simply cannot do that, it needs to be a balance, of managing the virus until we have a cure or vaccine, and protecting the nhs from being breached whilst trying to keep the economy flowing.

People need to be realistic. There is no way to suppress it without killing everting else. End of. Let’s not pretend there is.

And yes, it does seem some folks are disappointed it’s not longer.

Having been through what you are facing: the issue is that shops are places where staff pass COVID on to each other. A complete hard lockdown for four weeks would get you through it, but the UK is not yet ready to grasp that nettle.

@Eckhart

The trouble is that viruses cant be suppressed long term

That's not the trouble. Nobody is trying to suppress it longterm.

The trouble is, if we do what we need to do in order to supress the virus for as long as we need to, the economy is ruined. If we save the economy, the NHS is overwhelmed. We're looking for the crossover in the venn diagram, but it's 2 separate circles, quite far apart.

We can't fund this pandemic.

My comment about 'viruses cant be suppressed long term' was in response to @BefuddledPerson who said "suppressing the virus is a coherent response"

Anyway I agree we are treading a very fine line.

The right approach would've been to plough a huge amount more money and resources into the NHS to allow it to have a greater capacity this winter... but unfortunately this time last year we voted in a bunch of wankers to be our government so sadly that hasnt happened...