My workplace insists they can stay open.

[XmasIsComming]

I work somewhere that sells a lot of non essential items. We also have an area of gardening/diy within the store.

I have been informed that the whole store will remain open during lockdown.

We closed during the first lockdown.
Apparently this time our business doesn't have to close.

I think if a lot of businesses are doing this then it's not going to be a very effective lockdown.

@honkytonkheroe

Construction can open and this is part of the problem. We can open but the work is not there. Traditionally, we do lots of fit out jobs and largely at airports. Also with banks/building societies. Pub refits. We landed a big job fitting out a chain on cinemas just before lock down. People have largely stopped spending and prior work not started has been put on hold. We do have some work but not as much as before. We also have a very big joinery workshop that needs a lot of work just to meet its overheads. Therefore, being able to furlough the people we don’t need is essential to our survival. The new job retention scheme was just not as good for us or the employee. We’ve already made about 20 people redundant and have about 80 employees left but are trying to avoid more redundancies.

It's unfortunate for you that the type of work you do isn't there. Obviously anyone running airports, shopping centres, cinemas, restaurants etc is unlikely to be spending money in the short to medium term

However it's not the same for all construction sectors. DP is a machine driver but does most of his work on festival sites and concerts, so has obviously done none of that since March, but fortunately can also drive the same machine in any environment so has been working for a housebuilder for the last few months.

The government would expect you to do the same, switch your clients from the service sector to something else that's still open, rather than continuing to support your previous business which may not be viable again for some time.

I think that because businesses have got their social distancing measures and we all know lot more about the virus ,shops and businesses are more confident about finding a loophole to stay open and who can blame them . My carpet cleaner is still coming next week . Apparently he is classed as a key worker🥴I am fine about it ....shall stay out ,he wears PPE and I leave house fully ventilated .

So 2 of the 3 places with highest transmission are still open. Hotels and takeaways too. Is it really worth shutting other small shops when they are not the main cause?

Absolutely and we are pricing like mad but it’s taking a while. You can’t just change your client base over night.

I agree, shops shouldnt shut.

This second lockdown here in Ireland is so half hearted that the bus was stuck in traffic ystrdy. Im an essential worker, i have my letter to say i have permission to be 5k away from my house but the half heartedness of this "lockdown" compared to the last is really obvious. People need to keep earning tho. I totally get it.

Im not blasé about viruses, i think the next one could be more fatal and the govts will have no more money to throw at it, people wont believe it's more fatal and compliance will be very low.

All of the energies poured in to lockdowns could instead be geared towards icu units.

They have all had enough time now.

I don’t think shops need to shut either, though I think some shoppers behaviour needs to change- wandering around aimlessly chatting in groups, talking on the phone, coughing and spluttering into the air and wearing masks around their chin. I feel sorry for the staff who are exposed to their thoughtless behaviour!

Yes good distinction. Buy what you are going to buy but shopping is not a leisure activity atm

@dottiedaisee

I think that because businesses have got their social distancing measures and we all know lot more about the virus ,shops and businesses are more confident about finding a loophole to stay open and who can blame them . My carpet cleaner is still coming next week . Apparently he is classed as a key worker🥴I am fine about it ....shall stay out ,he wears PPE and I leave house fully ventilated .

He probably won't be insured if he damages your carpet though.

Our dentist claims she is going to carry on as normal. However, I suspect she will find that few people are booking appointments.

Carpet cleaners are not key workers but are allowed to carry on working - the guidance says you can go to your normal workplace if you cannot work from home and are not in one of the sectors that have been told they must close.

Dentists will probably be doing urgent work where people are in pain or part way through treatment plans. Plus possible less urgent work for those who would benefit from it, basically what they can fit in. Dentists are already well versed in infection control so, while they've had to put in extra measures and work at reduced capacity to accommodate these, they are allowed to continue their work.

Sorry on carpet cleaners 'going to your normal workplace' includes in private homes, so cleaners, plumbers, heating engineers etc etc can still work.

@MoonJelly

Our dentist claims she is going to carry on as normal. However, I suspect she will find that few people are booking appointments.

Why would you not go to the dentist, I went yesterday for my routine hygienist visit, I would have still gone if it had been next week.

I think the tier system would have worked eventually to bring numbers down but they were only in place a couple of weeks. Aren't numbers coming down in Liverpool already ?

I can understand your concern op but I can really understand why shops are trying to stay open if they can . Your boss may or may not be able to stay open but I'd just go to work and see what happens. If they shut are you not worried they will end up out of business and you out of a job ?

I think the tier system would have worked eventually to bring numbers down but they were only in place a couple of weeks

Yes. We need to start the tier system again but with a lower number of cases as a starting point.

And so they should. We're all going to feel the pain if they have to close and go out of business. As an employee, you especially. I don't understand why you'd be so keen for them to close!! Did you fancy some furlough instead? I can't think of a single reason why you'd want it to closed!

The problem with the tier system was that compliance was poor. Plenty of people were ignoring restrictions and meeting up with friends and relatives in homes, bars and restaurants etc and ignoring social distancing - kissing and hugging hello and goodbye for example.

@TiersTiersTiers

The table above *@Fedup21* isn't where transmission occurred though - it is merely showing the common locations that people that have covid have visited not where they contracted it. Given that most people need to shop then it's not surprising at some point a person has visited a supermarket - it does not mean they caught it there!

For the schools shut brigade there have been new studies "Reports from Germany, Norway and the WHO conclude schoolchildren are not vector of infection"

Given the current levels of infection, transmission is everywhere in the community.

Those places are “pulls” that bring people from the relative safety of their home into the community. The lockdown aims to stop people going into the community as much as possible.

The government has the unenviable task of deciding which “pulls” have benefit enough to stay open. The yardstick is if they are essential.

As safe as places might be as long as they are magnets to bring people out into the community they will contribute to transmission. At the end of the day we know, staying at home breaks chains of transmission.

@MoonJelly

Our dentist claims she is going to carry on as normal. However, I suspect she will find that few people are booking appointments.

Why would you suspect that? People will still need to see a dentist for routine work and emergencies. During the last lock down, I had to travel 45 minutes for dental work on several occasions. My local one is 5 minutes walk.

The point isn't about whether or not OP has a job, the point is non essential shops are meant to close.
Saying it's essential to the owner is silly. That's not what the government meant when they said essential shops. If it was everywhere would be open.
I agree lots of places are going to do this which is why the government should have said exactly who could stay open.

Our daighter (grown up and has her own family) recently took a job in retail after losing her job because of the first lock down. I cant begin to explain how happy and relieved she is that her shop will remain open and she has job security. I expect the shops remaining open will have ques and numbers inside limited again.

If your role can be done from home op then why not put in a wffh request if you don't want to be physically there?

If your role can be done from home op then why not put in a wffh request if you don't want to be physically there

That should happen automatically.

If we are only meant to leave the home for essential items, essential trips or exercise then it should be a moot point whether shops that sell non-essential items remain open.

@PinkFondantFancy

And so they should. We're all going to feel the pain if they have to close and go out of business. As an employee, you especially. I don't understand why you'd be so keen for them to close!! Did you fancy some furlough instead? I can't think of a single reason why you'd want it to closed!

Many many people want to go on furlough. I was speaking to a builder yesterday who said many in the construction trade were not taking jobs on as they were waiting for furlough to kick in.

Some stores were limiting numbers. We was at Westfield last week, and stores were limiting customers, and had sd queues. Plus hand gel and staff at the doors ordering you to use it!! Hell of a lot more Covid secure than the schools.