Isn’t the elephant in the room with schools the parents mixing at pick up and drop off?

[Reastie]

This doesn’t seem to be mentioned in the media atm when discussing schools.

I remember Chris Whitty saying around the last lockdown one of the major risks with schools staying open was parents congregating at pick up and drop off. At dds school parents socialise in groups of more than 6 outside the school gates without distancing despite what the school requests and this isn’t an isolated thing in schools. I wonder if the govt will give stricter schools guidance in general, including addressing this more stringently.

Is there any evidence for outdoor transmission?
VE day congas?
People crowding on beaches?
Black lives matter protests?

No, was listening to a scientist and he said there have been no known cases of transmissions on beaches for example.

We didn’t see the predicted spikes after VE Day.

We know this now.

I'm in Scotland (Glasgow). We've been asked just this week to start wearing masks at pick-up and drop-off. We also have staggered times so it never seems to get that busy (large urban primary school). I don't see it as risky based on what we know about transmission with these measures in place. Hopefully not, anyway.

The problem at our school isn’t the parents it’s the school! The parents are all wearing masks and keeping their distance and turning up at their allocated time for collection. The problem is the teachers are letting the kids out 10 minutes late because they have been talking too much which then means the next lot of parents have arrived for their time slot and we are all standing on top of each other as there isn’t enough room. It’s been mentioned but nothing has changed.

Yep I think the "elephat in the room" is the 6 hours a day they spend sat in the classroom mixing with 200 of their peers.

Surely that is just idiotic parents though?

At DC’s school in the SE, we have staggered drop off and pick up times and must wear masks whilst on school property and are asked to wear them on the roads and areas of parking nearby.

No, it's an idiotic government not mandating/funding mitigating measures in schools.

The risk of parents spreading a virus while they're waiting for a few minutes outside is considerably less than children spreading it while they're inside for hours a day.

...and then spreading it to their parents etc

Problem with staggered pick up times is if you have (as I do) 20minutes between picking up your children then it no wonder parents end up congregating in school grounds. 20 minutes isn’t enough time to even leave school premises before you need to come back. Space on school grounds is limited, and the school is on a very busy road with nowhere to park or go anywhere to wait. Usually my kids are in tea club, but if I do pick up after school I get DS2 and wait at the far end of the car park by the trees, then walk along to DS1s classroom at the right time. Keeps us away from everyone, and DS2 safe (he’s autistic and cannot cope waiting around a busy road).

I thought the event where Donald Trump got covid was held outside, in the Rose Garden? Also, lots of spread at his outdoor rallies. I’m not sure outside in the Autumn is 100% the same as outside at the height of summer when hardly anyone has coronavirus, because they’ve just come out of lockdown!

Again the rose garden event was likely the socialising behind the scenes, plus most of the rallies were held in indoor stadiums I believe with people literally sat next to each other in those stadium style seats.

I think being outside reduces the risk of transmission because obviously in terms of ventilation, it's fantastic but if an infected person was standing within a metre of you talking/coughing
/sneezing without a mask on I think being outside would not make a huge difference. All the events mentioned took place when infection levels were relatively low compared to now so the chances of catching Covid then were also low.

The guidance is to still keep 2m apart even when outside so the scientists clearly think that being outside doesn't remove all risk.

At my sons primary they 've staggered the drop off/pick up times and all parents must wear a mask, drop and collect quickly and keep social distance. There's also a one way system. I think they've done all they can really.

The school run is always a nightmare where I live. We have two secondaries and six primaries. So three o’clock is heavy foot fall and traffic. Parents, grandparents and kids also tend to pop into Tesco and the other shops at that time. Kids congregate at the parks, street corners, outside of shops. Parents walk home together on small pavements, chatting away as normal - sure they’re not going into each other homes but that’s pretty much the only thing that’s different. Masks are only worn indoors.

I don’t see how keeping the schools open and closing non essential shops will make a difference in the numbers. We don’t have non essential shops on our estate - Tesco, Aldi, takeaways, Coop, one Stop etc. People will get going to these after school, like they always have.

Parents wait on the playground as they always did which allows plenty of space to spread out.
Masks have just been requested. Totally pointless outside. Just another make-it-look-like you're doing something gesture, with all the effectiveness of using a sieve to get the lumps out of your flour (outside) then putting it through a colander as a back up (mask)
I can not wear one anyway, but have always been more sensible about space than most.

Anyway aside from pointless, token scraps of fabric, 10 mins standing on a windswept playground waiting for the next bubble to enter/ exit is of negligable risk of virus transmission. The hazard is close proximity with lack of ventilation.

@Vintagevixen - yes, we can always make up excuses when the data doesn’t suit us. Obviously being outside is much safER. That is not the same as safe. If it were considered that safe, we would be allowing gatherings to happen outside all the time and just closing the indoor venues people might gravitate towards afterwards. As it is, parents have a tendency to be offended if not allowed to use school toilets, etc, so it’s a fair bet that even at school drop off and pick up, people feel safe enough now they are around each other to just keep stretching those rules a little bit, hanging around that little bit longer than necessary, walking home together, popping in to use someone’s loo, because they’ve mutually agreed that they’ve practically caught covid off each other already by sending their kids to school, so what possible difference could a little bit more exposure make (not something they seem to think is logical when it comes to unprotected sex, on the other hand)?

At nursery we all queue outside ( usually in the pissing rain!) 2 m apart and they take the children in one at a time. There is no mixing of parents

We have to keep 2m apart, wear masks and we’re outside.... so pretty safe I think.

There are people making sure that parents don’t stop in groups around the entrance and exit (they put in a one way system) for a chat.

All seems very well managed here but appreciate that not all schools will be like this.

Our school has done it's best to keep everyone apart and for the most part they all stick to the time slots, stand behind the lines etc etc and then when their child is allowed in, they walk up to the gate with them and then just sort of stop --- which means all the parents pile on top of each other

Luckily we're the last slot and DS a bit older, so I stand well to the side and he goes in at the end and just scoots round them all!

We have now been told to wear masks and teachers are wearing them for drop off and pick up too!

@KarmaNoMore

Problem with secondary schools is that most kids walk home... together with a bunch of friends.

The school has all measures in place but as soon they are past the gate, they are walking closely together, talking loudly to each other, with no masks, for more than 10 minutes with other 5-10 people.

What do you think is happening in school corridors (indoors, lacking ventilation) that is different to this?

What about at lunchtime in the canteen?

There is no social distancing within bubbles, or between bubbles in many school corridors.