Isn’t the elephant in the room with schools the parents mixing at pick up and drop off?

[Reastie]

This doesn’t seem to be mentioned in the media atm when discussing schools.

I remember Chris Whitty saying around the last lockdown one of the major risks with schools staying open was parents congregating at pick up and drop off. At dds school parents socialise in groups of more than 6 outside the school gates without distancing despite what the school requests and this isn’t an isolated thing in schools. I wonder if the govt will give stricter schools guidance in general, including addressing this more stringently.

@Time2change2 exactly! It shows how little people have engaged with the science.

The schools my children attend seem to have a very strong leadership team/teachers who've worked hard to ensure strict measures are in place and adhered to around the school, as a result the schools have had very few cases of covid.

This isn't really a problem at our local primary. There's still staggered starts and multiple drop off locations. The classes that have a door to outside work even better because there's a 10 minute window to pick up/drop off. I'm only seeing a small handful of parents at the same time I'm going

Our school is really strict about parents queuing 2m apart, wearing masks and staggered drop offs/pick ups. They have staff supervising too. Very hard to socialise at those times.

Is there any evidence for transmission outdoors over 10 minutes?

I’m dropping off at the end of the road as my Y5 dd can walk the last bit by herself, but I had understood that outdoors was low risk, and that length of time of interaction was also significant. I know some parents have to wait around for kids in different years being let out at different times, so it’s understanadable that they chat - but 2m apart and in the open air seems to have worked as we’ve had no cases in school for the first half of term.

@Completmentfille

We queue 2 m apart outside the gates and wear masks. Isn't that what everyone is doing?

Nope! You'd be very surprised. All parents at my child's school wear masks but about half of them aren't keeping their distance 🙄 I keep 2 metres away from the person in front of me, but then another parent will come up and stand less than 1 metre behind me.

Schools do have the social distance rules in place but it's half the knobhead parents who don't listen or follow these rules!

It’s the same at our school . Plus we have the issue of school buses at our school too so staggered times won’t work .

Outdoors?
For a short time?
Yes, that's definitely the big risk and the elephant in the room...

Not sure about what happens at primary level but I think by late secondary you as good as in a bubble with the parents anyway. A parent gave it to a Year 12 who gave it to another Year 12 who gave it to a parent. I am not meeting anyone but as soon as my Year 12 walks in I am in her bubble of 200 (plus siblings, parents, people on the bus, teachers and the parents’ co-workers). So I reckon her bubble is at least a few thousand strong.

It's a free for all outside my youngest DS's primary school. There are staggered start times and signs up reminding everyone of social distancing but it appears that very few can read them! The staggered start times don't work too well for those who have 2 or 3 children in different classes. They end up standing around chatting and blocking the whole pavement. It's all a bit chaotic. I just stop at the end of the school railing and watch DS go through the gate, then run on. The whole thing makes me quite anxious to be honest.

My eldest just started secondary school in September and gets a dedicated school bus. He says that loads of kids take their masks off on the bus. It's a fifteen minute journey from our town to the school, so not difficult to comply with the rules. There have been directives from the school about wearing face masks but some kids think it's 'cool' to break the rules and they're often the very kids you wouldn't want to start an argument with.

we live next to DD's primary school and absolutely nobody is wearing a mask and they're definitely not keeping a distance. Staggered start and end times seem to be working well as far as the kids are concerned, which is good, but unfortunately it means there are groups of parents standing chatting for quite long periods, 30-40 minutes (on a nice day - it pissed it down this morning and most people just left!).

DDs secondary school sent out a fairly stern email a couple of days into term to say that kids had to mask up leaving school and parents should preferably wait in their cars or at least arrange to meet DC some distance from the school gates. Luckily DD walks to/from school so I have no idea what happens in practice.

I live near an infant and junior school and none of the parents seems to give a stuff about social distancing or masks. They all walk home in groups or head to the park together.

Exactly @Zandathepanda some parents just don’t get this. Myself and DH are fortunate enough to be still WFH don’t go out other than to do Click & Collect or go for a walk. But yes by the kids going to school I am in effect with the entire 6th form bubble at DS’s school plus teachers (their families and contacts) and all the 6th form pupils their families etc. Same for DD’s school except her bubble is the entire year group from a large Comp etc.

There haven't been any links to spread outside even at mass gatherings.

I thought the Cheltenham meeting had been implicated in transmission across the country.

We have 2 different car parks so half the school in one and the others in the other one, we all wear masks and are 2 meters apart. They also let the bus children out 10 mins early so they are off the yard before the rest come out.

Junior school (which my youngest left this summer) had staggered drop off and pick up times which worked well, and that was an urban environment busy street.

Secondary school where I now have a year 7 and year 9 kid they bubble the Year groups on school grounds, but waiting to collect my child, as soon as the kids exit the school gates they meet up with friends from other Year groups and mix anyway.

Since September there’s been only 5 Positive Covid cases in both year 7 and year 9 that as parents we were informed of.
Plus aware of one positive case in the sixth form. It’s an average size secondary school I suppose, so those figures aren’t bad. We live in the highest rate of infections town in the East Midlands/east anglia border.

Think a lot of the Cheltenham link was the indoor socialising and events though.

Staggered pick ups have led to me having 20 minutes between collections so I have no option but to hang around outside with all the other parents in the same situation, we could distance better if we were allowed to wait on school grounds but we are not.
We have also been told by the head not to wear masks on school grounds, a handful still do but not many.

Just one of part of the herd of elephants.

We have a massive playing field in front of the school gates. We are able to fan out and wait (staggered collection times too). We are obviously also outside which massively reduces transmission. I’d literally have to be snogging other parents repeatedly and at random in order to catch Covid-19 in this scenario. Correct me if I’m wrong...
I appreciate an urban secondary school in Birmingham might have a different risk profile but I’m not going to advocate my rural primary school should be shut because parents at pick up might pose a risk. There needs to be much more tailored approaches to this (I’m already pissed off at being in National lock down when I live in an area with low cases and a hospital that looks very far from being remotely overwhelmed.)

I really don't think there is a problem.

So, we are standing in line on the pavement waiting for the gates to open. Pickups are staggered so in the line you only have parents of DC in the same class as yours, therefore we all know each other. Are we supposed to stay silent? What harm does it make to turn around and have a chat? Considering we are still at a 2m distance and outdoors. Oh and that our DC spend all day together anyway.

Obviously, staying afterwards to chat for 15min is not on, same for hugging etc. But chatting while waiting in line is natural.

Completely parents are thick as.all standing round the gates chatting as we try squeeze passed to get child on to playground yes there wearing masks but not the point just go home or if you really need to talk move away from the school drop of Point.

We have to wear masks whenever we drop off/collect our children.

We have a queue of parents 2 metres apart, a one-way system to pick up kids with not stopping allowed and we all wear face masks now due to the increasing restrictions nationally. It feels very socially distanced, but it sounds like this is far from the case everywhere!

@KarmaNoMore Problem with secondary schools is that most kids walk home... together with a bunch of friends.

The school has all measures in place but as soon they are past the gate, they are walking closely together, talking loudly to each other, with no masks, for more than 10 minutes with other 5-10 people.

What measures do you really think the school has in place that will prevent the spread of COVID-19? The risk is not walking home with no mask , it’s the hour in a classroom with no mask.
I can see how people fall for the spin by your post.