Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

T-cell immunity lasts at least 6 months

52 replies

starfro · 02/11/2020 22:41

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54781496

Who would have thought the human immune system wasn't completely useless and forgets about an infection in 60 days?

As an aside, with SARS 1 they can still see immunity 17 years later in people who had that virus, 15 years after antibodies were no longer detectable.

OP posts:
notevenat20 · 02/11/2020 22:49

Good news all round!

Unsure33 · 02/11/2020 22:49

I do know someone who has had covid twice since March . In her 30s

GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 02/11/2020 22:54

@Unsure33

I do know someone who has had covid twice since March . In her 30s
Was she as unwell the second time?
hamstersarse · 02/11/2020 22:57

Shhhhhhh you are not allowed to tell anyone about the T Cell phenomenon that scientists have known about for decades. Especially if you are Whitty or Valance and you want to claim that we only have 7% immunity and even that is reducing!

Apparently we all have to have antibodies before we can get on with normal life! When only 3 viruses out of the hundreds that exist have long lasting antibodies. 3! All the rest rely on T Cell immunity.

It is estimated 30% of the population had T Cell immunity when this thing landed, hence why Ferguson's model was so wildly wrong - he modelled it based on 100% susceptibility in the population (it should be ~70% at worst)

It's obvious this is a thing - just look at all the anecdotal stories of people being in the same house and not everyone catching it.

But anyway, we mustn't talk about this. People prefer to be scared witless waiting for a vaccine and believing everything the govt tells us, despite many many scientists pointing out T Cell immunity right from the start (not Whitty and Valance).

starfro · 02/11/2020 23:00

The key to immunity is that the 2nd time the infection is less likely to lead to either transmission or hospital treatment.

There are one or two cases of 2nd infections that are worse due to immune system over-reaction, but these appear to be a tiny minority.

OP posts:
Sunflowers246 · 02/11/2020 23:11

Great news

Sunflowers246 · 02/11/2020 23:12

Another reason for schools to stay open. Our children need to develop these T cells and gain immunity!

Witchend · 02/11/2020 23:28

And in the same article, right up at the top it says it isn't clear if this leads on to better protection against reinfection.

It also says it is possible that it might provide people who had symptoms with protection against a second infection.
On the other hand it might not.
That does not sound particularly positive. It's simply looking at one possible research area.

LargeAndLittle · 02/11/2020 23:30

@hamstersarse which 3 viruses are they please?

CoffeeandCroissant · 02/11/2020 23:46

"It is too early to say that this study means people are protected long term after infection as we don’t yet know, but this kind of study is important and further longitudinal studies will be equally important. These studies are also important as they demonstate antibody assays alone may not be sufficient to measure an individal’s immunity to SARSCovid 19."

“This study is promising for vaccine development and gives a feasible justification for optimism about re-infection being rare.”
Dr Alison Whitelegg on behalf of the Association for Clinical Biochemistry’s Immunology Professional Committee.

"It is, therefore, not necessarily correct to say that this is evidence of T cell “immunity”. Immunity is a functional term that implies resistance to infection, and this has not been directly shown in this study. Determining whether these T cell responses are protective against reinfection would require either an experimental infection study (such studies are under active discussion) or a very large, long term study to assess the frequency of reinfection in people whose T cell responses have been measured. "
Prof Eleanor Riley, Professor of Immunology and Infectious Disease, University of Edinburgh

" If cellular immunity is a good correlate of protection to re-infection, this provides encouraging data for long-term immunity to SARS-Cov-2 and the development of effective vaccines – however this study cannot tell us whether people are protected from re-infection, so we still need more data first. "
Prof Brendan Wren, Professor of Microbial Pathogenesis, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine

"Overall, the work provides a welcome dose of optimism that SARS-CoV2 infection (and immunisation?) can induce a robust and sustained protective immune response, although this does not yet prove immunity to further infections which will require longer term surveillance and larger cohorts.”
Prof Paul Morgan, Director of the Systems Immunity Research Institute, Cardiff University.

"These results provide reassurance that, although the titre of antibody to SARS-CoV-2 can fall below detectable levels within a few months of infection, a degree of immunity to the virus may be maintained. However, the critical question remains: do these persistent T cells provide efficient protection against re-infection? It will also be important to follow the antibody and T cell immunity in people who develop the syndrome of Long Covid – the persistent and sometimes debilitating condition that follows acute SARS-CoV-2 infection in a still uncertain proportion of people. Finally, the data in this paper reinforce the need for care in interpreting the results of serological (antibody) tests: it is still unclear how well either the antibody titre or the T cell frequency correlate with actual protection against reinfection.”
Prof Charles Bangham FRS FMedSci, Chair of Immunology, Imperial College London.

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-preprint-looking-at-cellular-responses-six-months-after-sars-cov-2-infection-in-a-group-of-non-hospitalised-individuals/

CoffeeandCroissant · 03/11/2020 00:02

@hamstersarse

Research does not yet support a beneficial effect from cross-reactivity, let alone making people immune.
mobile.twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1293344524731691008

Sette/Crotty/Mateus who published the cross-reactive memory T cell paper stress that the clinical relevance of the finding is 'unknown', 'highly speculative', 'any functional role remains unproven' nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00460-4

MummyPop00 · 03/11/2020 00:24

Positive news & I’m cautiously optimistic, but not getting giddy about anything at this stage. Same goes for any vaccines in progress.

Sb2012 · 03/11/2020 00:30

How is this new news or good news?
It doesn’t say that T cell immunity protects against reinfection in the long term or whether a second infection would be milder or worse than the first?
It simply states what we already know.
Also antibodies can last for 6 months in some people too. There was a study done that shows that some individuals still had a decent level of antibodies a few months later.

SheepandCow · 03/11/2020 00:40

Being cautiously optimistic is good. False complacency, on the other hand, is dangerous. Potentially positive news but we need to remain cautious for now.

Remember it's not just about death. Long Covid is a very real risk.

From the experts at the WHO:

There have also been some examples of people infected with #COVID19 being infected for a second time"-@DrTedros

we’re only beginning to understand the long-term health impacts among people with #COVID19. I have met with patient groups suffering with what is now being described as “Long COVID” to understand their suffering & needs so we can advance research & rehabilitation"-@DrTedros

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage

Juststopswimming · 03/11/2020 07:21

How dare you have tried to provide some positivity @Hamstersarse - this is a week for doom and gloom. YABVVVVU to try and ruin the doom-mongers parade as they barricade themselves in their houses for #lockdown2 and shriek for schools to be shut.

Juststopswimming · 03/11/2020 07:22

Apologies, that shouldve been directed at @starfro - but hamster you're always trying to provide rational thoughts too, so shame on you as well Grin

CanThisBeOverSoon · 03/11/2020 07:28

@Unsure33

I do know someone who has had covid twice since March . In her 30s
Was it confirmed by test in March or just assuming they had it because of symptoms. I know a lot of people who "thought" that had it in March
scaevola · 03/11/2020 08:02

It is estimated 30% of the population had T Cell immunity when this thing landed

That was more of a 'gained currency on the internet type of estimate, based on a couple of papers; not a backed by peer-reviewed evidence which has been replicated many times* sort of evidence.

And no it's not a 'sshh' thing. Just something that scientists, researchers and public health planners have been taking into account all along, but which MSM likes to play as a 'Who knew?' from time to time, because they don't pay the same sustained detailed attention as immunologists and epidemiologists

hamstersarse · 03/11/2020 08:02

This is a really good explanation of the likely immune response to Covid.

There seems to be a misconception that antibodies and T Cells are the same thing when they are not.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02400-7

hamstersarse · 03/11/2020 08:06

[quote LargeAndLittle]@hamstersarse which 3 viruses are they please? [/quote]
I can’t find the paper again.
I know that will therefore sound like I’ve made it up. It was a paper from a ‘proper scientist’ I just didn’t save it!

From memory, One was definitely measles, and one was some tropical virus I’d not heard of, the other possibly mumps.

I’ll have another dig and try and find it

The point of the paper was that expectations that we’d have long term antibodies to COVID are unusual given that the body’s response to most viruses is by the memory T Cells

ivftake1 · 03/11/2020 08:09

@hamstersarse

Shhhhhhh you are not allowed to tell anyone about the T Cell phenomenon that scientists have known about for decades. Especially if you are Whitty or Valance and you want to claim that we only have 7% immunity and even that is reducing!

Apparently we all have to have antibodies before we can get on with normal life! When only 3 viruses out of the hundreds that exist have long lasting antibodies. 3! All the rest rely on T Cell immunity.

It is estimated 30% of the population had T Cell immunity when this thing landed, hence why Ferguson's model was so wildly wrong - he modelled it based on 100% susceptibility in the population (it should be ~70% at worst)

It's obvious this is a thing - just look at all the anecdotal stories of people being in the same house and not everyone catching it.

But anyway, we mustn't talk about this. People prefer to be scared witless waiting for a vaccine and believing everything the govt tells us, despite many many scientists pointing out T Cell immunity right from the start (not Whitty and Valance).

You lost me at 'hence why'
pinpinbin · 03/11/2020 08:09

@hamsterarse a rare sensible post based on scientific fact about the nuances of the human immune system has cheered me up today, after reading.on the "would you take the vaccine?" thread that "your immune system is in your gut" and "vaccines accurate in your bone marrow and.destroy health". Thank you for temporarily restoring my faith that some people at least are still capable logical, rational, science-based critical evaluation. Star

pinpinbin · 03/11/2020 08:10

Accumulate

NotAKaren · 03/11/2020 08:17

Very interesting information all. I have always wondered how people are not infected living in the same household as a confirmed case if the virus is so contagious. I do believe that some are less susceptible for some reason which is possibly T cell immunity due to previous corona virus infections but I am not scientifically minded enough to know. I do hope they do more research on this.

starfro · 03/11/2020 08:20

Post here that talks about how immunity lasts decades from SARS: directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

Also - "Bertoletti’s team looked for such T cells in blood samples from 37 healthy individuals with no history of either COVID-19 or SARS. To their surprise, more than half had T cells that recognize one or more of the SARS-CoV-2 proteins under study here. It’s still not clear if this acquired immunity stems from previous infection with coronaviruses that cause the common cold or perhaps from exposure to other as-yet unknown coronaviruses"

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread