T-cell immunity lasts at least 6 months

[starfro]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54781496

Who would have thought the human immune system wasn't completely useless and forgets about an infection in 60 days?

As an aside, with SARS 1 they can still see immunity 17 years later in people who had that virus, 15 years after antibodies were no longer detectable.

Yes it is positive news, I read about it in the British Medical Journal. T cells in some people appear to be recognising the virus.

I think it is pretty obvious by now that some people are more susceptible to this virus than others.

But that does not play into the 'we are all doomed' narrative...

I hope scientists keep digging into that. No just Tcells but also other factors.

There also needs to be some stronger and blunt public health messages about how people can take some steps themselves to reduce risks: lose weight (I keep seeing really overweight people when wards with Covid patient are shown...); quitting smoking; exercising and following a healthy diet. All that helps build a stronger immune system.

We are very unhealthy it seems as a nation and that does not help...

There are already people on here who have become infected twice. There is a thread on here. Someone should study the care home staff because they have weekly tests so can track reinfections. We will know very soon through mumsnet anecdote if nothing else if these women are getting sicker than in March / April or not. Could be lower viral load because of mask wearing though.

Yes it is interesting that people living in the same house as an infected person hasn’t become ill themselves, this makes me think that not everyone will get this virus then as we have been lead to believe

Haven’t*

@ivftake1

Apologies my use of the English language wasn’t up to scratch

But totally unnecessary post

So maybe the potential susceptibility at the start was only 70%, not 100%. That would be a relief. And maybe the rate of asymptomatic cases is 80% (quoted in coverage of the mass testing programme about to be rolled out in Liverpool) rather than 20-30% (quoted many other places), which would be brilliant news. And maybe (almost certainly) T-cells do protect against reinfection, although perhaps not with 100% certainty, and maybe (probably) they will actually persist much much longer than 6 months - but we can’t know that yet for obvious reasons.

However

What we do know is that the number of infections is rising just about everywhere at the moment, and hospital admissions and deaths are too, and will continue to do so for several more weeks even if all social contact is literally shut off tomorrow. An awful lot of the population are still vulnerable to this bastard.

So, yes, I like hope and positive headlines as much as the next person. It’s what reminds me how important it is that, now that an English lockdown has been announced, we all do our utmost to comply with it. Because the chances are good that immunity will be long lasting, that a vaccine is coming, and the more of us who are still alive and free of long COVID when it lands, the better.

Read other threads and you come across hundreds of "you're only immune for a month" posts, and people are making decisions based on this false information. Whoever puts out this type of nonsense should be ashamed.

Throughout human history every Pandemic has ended due to immunity, leaving only residual flare-ups in small unaffected populations. In the vaccine era, they have only come in after the Pandemic is effectively over.

You lost me at 'hence why'

Really?!!! 🙄

Good news OP (but they don't like that round these parts so keep it under your hat 😉)

I had immunotherapy for MS, which wiped out my T and B cells. It cured my hay fever and I've only had a very mild dose of Covid. I wonder if it's made me more immune to it.

There's an increasing body of evidence of a T-cell response. It's early days for everything, so there's always a caveat- but I have noticed that the caveats are rarely included in articles about waning antibodies.

The Karolinska Institute found indications that t-cell immunity could be double that of antibody immunity:

Advanced analyses have now enabled us to map in detail the T-cell response during and after a COVID-19 infection. Our results indicate that roughly twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared with those who we can detect antibodies in

news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

Other papers:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7427556/
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/1/20-3772_article

[quote cathyandclare]There's an increasing body of evidence of a T-cell response. It's early days for everything, so there's always a caveat- but I have noticed that the caveats are rarely included in articles about waning antibodies.

The Karolinska Institute found indications that t-cell immunity could be double that of antibody immunity:

Advanced analyses have now enabled us to map in detail the T-cell response during and after a COVID-19 infection. Our results indicate that roughly twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared with those who we can detect antibodies in

news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

Other papers:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7427556/
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/1/20-3772_article[/quote]
That's very interesting because the 2x figure ties in with my very rough calculation on immunity, comparing R in the NW and London with the antibody prevalence.

That would mean about 35% in London were immune after the first wave, and 20% in the NW. Still a way off the Herd Immunity Threshold, but enough to cause the much broader lower curve we're seeing (much more pronounced in London). This is all going to be skewed by a 2nd lockdown now though.

I think the SAGE figures of 4,000 deaths a day are far far too pessimistic. America didn't even manage that and it's 5x the size!

@starfro

The 4000 a day death model has already been proven to be vastly overestimated. The model says we should be having 1000 deaths a day right now....we are having about 250.

It’s not just pessimistic, it’s wrong!

Yet the PM chose to quote it as he introduced a new national lockdown

'The 4000 a day death model has already been proven to be vastly overestimated. The model says we should be having 1000 deaths a day right now....we are having about 250.'

Yes, if left to 'rip'. France has just had over 800. Are these deaths totally irrelevant to you?! Do you not understand what happens in Europe has been seen to happen to us? Perhaps Macron is in cahoots with Johnson in making numbers up 🙄.

Let's keep to restrictions, keep the tragic deaths down and stop childishly accusing scientists of making shit up.

I found the Prof who was talking about antibodies

Prof Francois Balloux from UCL: scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=AwppHXYAAAAJ&hl=en

"We're getting exposed to probably >100 different viral species/strains during our lives. To the best of my knowledge, only 3 provide near-lifelong antibody titres: varicella zoster virus, measles and mumps"

Are these deaths totally irrelevant to you?!

When someone writes this, I already know that you think you know the answer to it

Are these deaths totally irrelevant to you?

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30388-0/fulltext Note this is from JULY. So the picture is clearly different already.

The point about locking down, is....are we VERY clear about what the impact on life is elsewhere? That we are not causing more deaths by being so one- issue focused?

The govt do not have an Impact Assessment of lockdowns. And they should.

I was reading about a man in America who caught it 3 times, the third time it killed him. Tested positive each time. Not sure if he was immunocompromised or not

Does anyone know why it's known as Covid 19 when the official name is SARS-CoV-2?

(SARS-CoV-2) is the strain of coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Ah, I see! Thank you for clearing that up for me.

'The point about locking down, is....are we VERY clear about what the impact on life is elsewhere? That we are not causing more deaths by being so one- issue focused?'

Jesus. Try watching a press conference they spell out very clearly direct and indirect deaths regarding covid and lockdown, economic effects re deprivation and associated health issues of that. Of course cancer treatment etc is important but the fact is if you cant actually get a bed because they're all sadly full with those suffering covid then that is a problem isn't it.

Lockdown doesn't fix covid it just stems the flow a bit to enable the nhs to cope with surges and also still treat other illnesses.

I don't know why you struggle to understand this.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

How do you know the impact of lockdowns when the government don't?

You really are amazing

[quote hamstersarse]@GetOffYourHighHorse

How do you know the impact of lockdowns when the government don't?

You really are amazing[/quote]
Perhaps she's going by the majority of the world's scientific and medical experts.
Including the amazing (and calmly intelligent) scientific expert, Professor Devi Sridhar.

These experts have very clearly explained that viruses move with people. Stopping that movement - containing the spread - is the only solution.

One proper lockdown absolutely contains Covid. Of course it depends on if it's a proper lockdown or not. That would include restricted borders, and a well functioning test, track, and trace.

'You really are amazing'

Thanks, I know.

'How do you know the impact of lockdowns when the government don't?'

They talk about it frequently. Direct and indirect deaths remember? Mental health issues, isolation, dv increase, livelihoods devastated etc etc etc. They balance it with what happens if nothing or not enough is done. Have you been living in a cave or something?

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'You really are amazing'

Thanks, I know.

'How do you know the impact of lockdowns when the government don't?'

They talk about it frequently. Direct and indirect deaths remember? Mental health issues, isolation, dv increase, livelihoods devastated etc etc etc. They balance it with what happens if nothing or not enough is done. Have you been living in a cave or something?

Great, glad to know you know the figures so please do enlighten me from my cave with these impact assessments

What is the impact on dv, cancer deaths, diabetes, heart attack and unemployment of a lockdown approach vs. a non- lockdown approach?

From my cave, I really need to see the figures associated with these things to be assured that lockdown saves more lives than it costs

Thanks for your help