So how likely is it that MPs vote against the lockdown on Weds?

[JacobReesMogadishu]

I’m hazarding a guess fairly unlikely?

But if they do does the govt have to accept the vote?

Very low. An embarrassingly large number of Tory MPs might vote against it, but not enough to make up for MPs from other parties who will support it.

@Ecosse that's because we put in public health measures you

Why hasnt Starmer gone for a vote of no confidence against the Government

Why would he get support from Tories on this, particularly just before the UK is suppose to leave the EU?

I don’t think enough MPs will vote against this week but a lot will kick off if there is talk of an extension.

@Ecosse

There is no evidence of these catastrophic projections every coming true *@lovelemoncurd*.

Exactly right. The scientists are refusing to show the models on which this based.

Why don’t they share the information?

Exactly right. The scientists are refusing to show the models on which this based.

Its true that the graphs shared on Saturday were barely readable, but I think that is more about being in a rush than anything else.

What would be the purpose of hiding information? Do you think they have been dishonest with the government? If so why? Why on earth would Boris Johnson be instituting a lock down, that the majority of the country will regard as evidence of his failure, if he felt there were an alternative?

@merrymouse

Exactly right. The scientists are refusing to show the models on which this based.

Its true that the graphs shared on Saturday were barely readable, but I think that is more about being in a rush than anything else.

What would be the purpose of hiding information? Do you think they have been dishonest with the government? If so why? Why on earth would Boris Johnson be instituting a lock down, that the majority of the country will regard as evidence of his failure, if he felt there were an alternative?

Oh, a lot of the graphs shown on Saturday weren’t new to me? I don’t know, I wandered off to make dinner but I suspect the lateness was due to arguments over other things.

They have modelled a figure they say is potentially 4000 deaths. It’s not a crime to want to know how they reached that figure. Other NHS services are cut to the bone based on these fears.

As for “do I think they’d be dishonest with government” yes. The WHO altered their definition of pandemic in 2005. There’s a massive amount of profit making going on and very little infection control.

Look at the number of cattle killed unnecessarily by Neil Ferguson’s projections on foot and mouth. It’s hard to think people are so arrogant they’ll happily cause chaos, but they will.

Oh, a lot of the graphs shown on Saturday weren’t new to me? I don’t know, I wandered off to make dinner but I suspect the lateness was due to arguments over other things.

It was barely readable because the size and scale of the presentation wasn't designed for a standard television.

The information is shared here: www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

There’s a massive amount of profit making going on

Who do you think is making all this money - people who work for Imperial College?

Why do you think the Conservative Government is listening to them? Do you think they are also profiteering? If so, wouldn't it be in their interests to cut in all the back benchers who are making such a fuss. You'd also have thought that somebody could throw a bit of cash at Michael O'Leary and Tim Martin to get them on side.

@merrymouse

Oh, a lot of the graphs shown on Saturday weren’t new to me? I don’t know, I wandered off to make dinner but I suspect the lateness was due to arguments over other things.

It was barely readable because the size and scale of the presentation wasn't designed for a standard television.

The information is shared here: www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences

There’s a massive amount of profit making going on

Who do you think is making all this money - people who work for Imperial College?

Why do you think the Conservative Government is listening to them? Do you think they are also profiteering? If so, wouldn't it be in their interests to cut in all the back benchers who are making such a fuss. You'd also have thought that somebody could throw a bit of cash at Michael O'Leary and Tim Martin to get them on side.

Blimey, I thought this was common knowledge

Lots of companies- privatise the profit, nationalise the losses, as per usual.

I’d start with the British Medical Association information

www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/outsourced-and-undermined-the-covid-19-windfall-for-private-providers

Even NHS senior management have questioned why they were left out of all this!

This will be one of a few inquiries into the contracts awarded

www.cityam.com/government-faces-lawsuit-over-108m-ppe-contract-with-pest-control-firm/

My late father worked in infectious disease. He’d have been baffled why the nhs was left out. But then, he was more optimistic about human nature - sounds like you are too.

Labour won't vote it down so the real news will be how many Tories rebel.

I am with you, very unlikely.

@MercyBooth

Why hasnt Starmer gone for a vote of no confidence against the Government

Because he wouldn't win it. The Conservatives have a large majority. Do you think they're going to vote against their own government for something that will lead to a general election?

Obviously Serco shares are doing well

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/28/england-coronavirus-covid-test-and-trace-teenagers

Blimey, I thought this was common knowledge

You haven't answered my question.

Why do you think the government are so easily swayed by a few scientific advisors who want to make a quick buck?

Even assuming that Boris Johnson is monumentally thick (and its odd that so many people who challenge Covid restrictions also think he is a hard nosed negotiator who will get a great Brexit Deal), why is he less influenced by all the business people working in travel and hospitality industries who give huge amounts of money to the Conservative party?

merry "Why do you think the government are so easily swayed by a few scientific advisors who want to make a quick buck?"

I can see from this comment you haven't read the links I gave, so I'll stop replying.

Why hasnt Starmer gone for a vote of no confidence against the Government

The government have a majority of 80, and have just seen their lead slip in the polls. On what grounds do you think Tory MPs would vote for a GE now?

I can see from this comment you haven't read the links I gave, so I'll stop replying.

I did read the links. Perhaps you should too.

They say that the government procurement process is flawed. They don't allege that the government is involved in some kind of conspiracy where they are bamboozled into calling a lockdown that has no political or social benefit, to funnel money towards private suppliers.

Many MPs will not only want their Christmas. They will want their pre Christmas too. Like pre Christmas drinkies, informal get togethers etc. And they will want to be able to do this without being watched like a hawk by the press. Which is what will happen if MPs attempt to do these things during a lockdown. And i very much doubt they will want to sacrifice these.

I bet they are silently cursing Cummings, Ferguson , Farrier et al because they have made being watched by the press even more likely.

Do they want to see us using ice rinks as morgues

Mortuaries, please - we're not American

*The prime minister’s spokesman said MPs will get a vote on whatever restrictions replace the lockdown in England when it is due to end on 2 December. He said the government would “seek to” go back into a tiered system, but pledged a Commons vote on any replacement.

As a matter of hard legal fact the regulations will expire on 0001 2 December and MPs will get a vote on what replaces the regulations. The intention of the government is to go back into a tiered system which is based on a local and regional basis.*

This is from the Guardian live feed.

Oh sorry I've just realised that will be voted on when this lockdown is about to come to an end - not what is voted on this Wednesday.

Even assuming that Boris Johnson is monumentally thick ... why is he less influenced by all the business people working in travel and hospitality industries who give huge amounts of money to the Conservative party?

More accurate, surely, to say they gave money, which having been given is now gone. Just how much do you suppose they'll be donating in future when their businesses are completely trashed?

As ever follow the money, and right now the cronies getting it are those involved in procurement, analysis and consultancy - Track and Trace, Deloitte, Randox Labs, Serco, Public First, etc, etc - and hardly any of them subject to competitive tendering

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/vast-sums-spent-no-one-knows-why-covid-reveals-why-uk-transparency-law-must-change/

As ever follow the money, and right now the cronies getting it are those involved in procurement, analysis and consultancy - Track and Trace, Deloitte, Randox Labs, Serco, Public First, etc, etc - and hardly any of them subject to competitive tendering

Darkly suggesting that people should 'follow the money' doesn't mean anything. Yes the tendering process could be subject to all sorts of corruption, but that doesn't explain why its being suggested that false data has been presented to trick the government into calling a lockdown.

Dido Harding might be completely incompetent, but that doesn't mean that tracking and tracing is unnecessary.

@unmarkedbythat

Labour won't vote it down so the real news will be how many Tories rebel.

Yes, Labour are in support of saving lives and the economy.

I wonder whether some of the more far to the right anti containment conservative backbenchers will defect to Nigel Farage's new anti lockdown party?
He's currently busy in the US, campaigning for Trump but I expect he can talk to interested MPs when he gets back.

@SheepandCow

Anti lockdown does not equal far right.