Breaking rules to pay the bills...

[wheresmymojo]

We've stuck to the rules all the way through however we're going to have to break the rules in this lockdown because the alternative is that we can't pay our mortgage/bills/for food.

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same position?

Oh no that sounds rough :( :(

No judgment.

When is your corporation tax due & can that be pushed back?

@2kool4skool

Does sound like you need to reduce your (very high) monthly outgoings one way or another

Unfortunately we can't.

We've cancelled everything that can be cancelled.

So our outgoings are now £4.2k ish which is made up of mortgage, two lots of car finance, credit card minimum payments, council tax, utilities, food, one tank of petrol per month, car & home insurance. Plus mobile phones which are needed for work (we don't have a landline and both are in contract so can't move to PAYG).

All insurances have been compared online. Utilities are the cheapest.

We can't get out of the car finance even if we give the cars back (I have checked).

We have even SORN'd one of the cars to save the second car tax and insurance even though we are paying the finance on it.

We are just about to cancel Sky (except broadband which we both need for work) and TV licence which are the last possible things we can cancel.

@nancy75

When is your corporation tax due & can that be pushed back?

31 December.

I'm not sure - it's about £24k. I'd have to speak to HMRC which I will do but they're not very flexible on corporate tax (even during pandemics).

There are thousands of people in the same boat if everyone broke the rules to pay their bills the lockdown won’t work.

Fuck it then, let's all stay at home and stop paying bills, how long do you think it will take before the house is repossessed? Seriously, give your head a wobble.

Anyway - thanks everyone for suggestions.

We'll definitely look at what else is possible next week.

I'm still hoping I can convince one of the car finance companies to take the car back and let us out of the payments as they are both £500 a month.

We are basically poster children for having a high income and high outgoings and assuming everything will be okay as we have 4 months savings. I've never had a day out of work before in my life and had no reason to think I ever would.

Hadn't really counted on a global pandemic.

Obviously lessons learned in a very painful way but without a time machine to go back it's a bit too late

HMRC are worth a try, I know they’re not a flexible bunch but you never know - even a couple of months late would give you a bit of breathing space & hopefully the chance to catch up a bit.

Nobody could have seen this coming, it’s a total shit show for so many people. I’m keeping my fingers crossed you get a nice tax man/woman to help you out

userxx I agree with you. No-one is going to obediently sit at home in the cold and starve if it's a choice between that or breaking the rules to get some income, and it's unfair and ridiculous to expect that of anyone.

For those suggesting using clients' gardens, this isn't allowed either, the updated guidance specifically excludes private gardens from the places where you can meet others.

Good luck to you OP. The government are sods for closing gyms.

Are you able to sell the house and move into much cheaper rented accommodation or buy a cheaper house?

Are you able to change mortgage to interest only?

I guess reducing/removing mortgage is the obvious option, plus getting out of the car finance contracts.

Do what you got to do

@TheSmallAssassin it’s not social though, it’s work. I’m assuming PTs (like cleaners or nannies or carers) can still go to clients homes as their work can’t be done at home?

My husband runs a limited company. Thankfully he paid himself a market salary and only paid dividends for real profit. As such he has been able to claim the full furlough (along with all his staff). Without it we would have been fucked.

But to all of you saying that the op and her dh have been tax dodging - they really haven't. The difference in tax (particularly if you take corporation tax into account) these days is minimal. And regardless - it's a totally legitimate way of operating. We have just been lucky that he chose not to run it like that as we needed the certainty of his salary monthly whether or not there were distributable profits.

No-one is going to obediently sit at home in the cold and starve if it's a choice between that or breaking the rules

That isn’t the only choice though. Plenty of suggestions, met with a flat no.

Wont your neighbors notice?

Definitely call the mortgage company and ask to drop down to interest only. That will most likely save you c£1000. I say this because we did the same and ours dropped from £1400 to £283.

I'd also call all your utilities companies, explain the hardship you're experiencing and ask for a payment plan - if you haven't swapped to the cheapest suppliers possible yet.

Good luck. My DH lost his job right at the beginning of the first lockdown and we've had to rapidly cut down our expenditure. We're both higher earners with kids in private schools, etc. And he didn't qualify for any benefits apart from job seekers allowance which stops next week and have crunched through our savings. These are frightening times for many and I'm sorry your experiencing such stress.

Lots of people on here not understanding limited company directors were excluded from any support. Most have received big fat 0 since March, 3 million people have been totally excluded from all schemes.

OP join excludeduk on Facebook lots of help and support for you both on there.

And to the poster that claims it's for tax reasons please do your maths and try to understand that once you minus off the fact no paid holidays, no sickness pay, accountancy bills and the sheer hours being limited is not tax avoidance It's mostly for the end clients benefits, and liability insurance reasons.

The old gap between employed and limited is long gone due to a raise in taxes.

@2kool4skool yeah, maybe. Gyms have had to close though, so I don't know what the further guidance will say about this kind of thing, if it can be made COVID secure.

Have you got a lot of debt already op? Can you get a personal loan just to get you through the next few months? It's not the best advice but it might give you some breathing space?

Cars should give you a payment break btw.

Did you borrow maximum bbl?

Go back to mortgage company and ask them what they can do to help. They shouldn't just allow you to default and it sounds like your credit is pretty fucked anyhow.

Have you got a lot of equity? Better if you don't actually as your unsecured lenders are more likely to accept a low payment plan. There are lots of alternatives to bankruptcy. Do you have a job where you can't enter into an Iva?

Its a really awful situation, i would look at rules carefully, they are a minefield, its possible there is a way round it , what do his clients say? If he traveled to see them in their home would he be going to work?? Another thread on here said it was ok for peoples cleaners to work, so if he went to their houses with some equipment / adjusted workouts, would that be ok? No idea! Would be wary of working in your garage in case neighbours reported you.
Did think though that if 80% of your joint salaries is £1100 but your mortgage is £1600 then there has obviously been some tax avoidance going on, no judgement as many people do the same but if as a consequence the furlough or equivalent self employed scheme doesnt provide as much cover as its meant to you can't really moan about it.

Ps hmrc have been very accommodating to us so worth asking? Have you still got the outstanding directors loan?

By the way similar high outgoings here plus private schools. Lots of us in a similar place. Did you qualify for the council grants?

Get a gazebo or similar for your garden and use that as it’s outdoors but sheltered