What was the science behind schools staying open?

[OneofPansPeople]

Missed the briefing last night so I wondered what the scientific data was that allowed schools to stay open?
It appears to be a very contentious subject but I wanted to try and stay away from the argumentative threads.

And Germany, France and Ireland all recognise the importance of keeping schools open during any lockdown

Check out the FB page Alerting parents to outbreaks in schools Ireland and you will see many many anxious, stressed out parents who do not want schools to remain open at any cost.
Keeping the schools open allows people to work. It slows down the spread and means the people getting the virus are a certain age and may be less likely to need hospital beds. It is using a tiered system of controlling the virus.

Many parents would prefer to have the choice to opt outfit this game but doing so means they are breaking the law.

I don't think anyone is saying that there is no transmission in schools, that's inevitable imo.

But as op said, the harm to society of closing them is far higher than the harm in keeping them open.

I do feel vulnerable teachers and pupils should have the option stay at home.

@Lavenderseas

And Germany, France and Ireland all recognise the importance of keeping schools open during any lockdown.

Yes, we should look to Germany in particular for the stringent measures they have put in place in schools in order to enable them to stay open. Way better than here, because they take the importance of keeping schools open really seriously.

France and Ireland both have masks in classrooms, France from age 6.

Schools are all COVID- secure and there is no evidence the virus is being transmitted in classrooms.

Are you serious? There is plenty of evidence.

France and Ireland both have masks in classrooms, France from age 6.

Can you please stop making things up. Irish children do NOT wear masks in the classroom from six years. They are compulsory from age 13.

There is so much rubbish being spouted in these threads. Please do not take what is written on MN as factual.

the science says we need to get R below 1

It's not saying R needs to be zero. Just below 1. That means that we don't have to cease all social contact, just some. Enough.

And the science will give some indication as to the types of actions that can lead to R less than 1.

Generally reducing social interactions. That reduction can be achieved in many ways. Say you normally see 2 people, and the science says that needs to be cut to 1. The science won't tell you which person to cut, just that you need to go from 2 to 1. The choice is yours not the science.

It's up to the politicians to choose the set of actions that they think will be best for society as a whole whilst achieving the R less than 1.

So scientist say we need to start closing off some social contact, but it's the politicians that have decided that if it's a choice between schools, pubs and household mixing, then schools stay open.

Science doesn't choose to keep schools open, it just says, if you close enough other things then schools can stay open and R will be below 1. Not 0. Some transmission will occur, some within schools , but at a low enough level that R slips below 1

You could try reading what I actually wrote, thismustbelove?

[quote Ecosse]@noblegiraffe

Schools are all COVID- secure and there is no evidence the virus is being transmitted in classrooms.

Dr Jenny Harries has been very clear that any risk of transmission in schools comes from teachers and staff gathering together in informal settings.

Staff rooms and coffee breaks are the biggest risk in schools, not D.C.[/quote]
I've not been in a staff room since March. I also get no coffee breaks as I'm with the children all day.

Apologies. I saw you had written from age 6 in France after I posted.

My children are due to return to school tomorrow. I am very stressed. children do not wear masks correctly.

My children are due to return to school tomorrow. I am very stressed.

Everyone is having such a shit time at the moment, it really is difficult.

I live outside of the UK, so different rules such as distancing, hand cleaning, masks on all of the time except when eating or drinking and when outside, classes kept in strict cohorts, daily self screening at home, and a heavy dose of relying on people to not send in children when unwell. We did have the options of send in, remote learning or home school. As long as transmission within the school setting remains low, we are staying with this option. Extremely grateful to school staff and teachers as it has allowed DC to have some sense of normal, to have time with friends, has found it better for learning, and to be out of the house. So far, so good. Children are adaptable and given the choice of all of the restrictions and rules and go to school, or to not go to school - DC is happy with following the rules and getting to go to school. Numbers have remained low within the school community but it does take effort from the schools, staff, students and families. I think attending school can be done in a safer way (nothing is ever safe) as long as community cases are not too high (risk management). Happy to give up restaurants (didn’t frequent often, buy takeaways now to help support), and it has been tough to minimise contacts but it’s a long game

Guess who is back! Staff aren't getting anywhere near the staff room in our local primaries as they have to cover lunch breaks in the classrooms

Should add - parents not allowed into schools, staff rooms limited in use eg no microwave, and also extent of use. Really feel for the staff

It will become very clear very soon as most things will be shut apart from schools.

I’m a teacher, I know NO teachers that would prefer schools to be shut.
The unions do not speak for me or my colleagues.

Apparently as risk for school DC are low. It is a gamble and hope that many teachers and parents won't get sick or die.
Maybe they're willing to risk a few adult in the name of education.
I don't know the answers I'm aware people depend on school for childcare but it is disappointing having tried to avoid this virus for months now as my DC will more than likely bring it home anyway.

France and Ireland both have masks in classrooms, France from age 6
Not the younger DC in Ireland only
Secondary school.
Teachers and SNAs are wearing aprons masks or/visors in Ireland thankfully.
My DD wears a mask in school as do many of her classmates but it is their choice aged 11.

Wasn't going to return to this thread but having been referred to as dense and moronic amongst other things but I just wanted to clarify that my post wasn't written in faux innocence to start an argumentative thread.
I'm amazed that there is such cynicism that someone can't understand how others might genuinely have been unable to watch tv? Really?
I'm well aware of the immediate and long term effects of children not receiving an education and parents struggling to get to work etc.
I asked my question as I wanted to see what logic/data the government were following.
Thanks to those who accepted my question on face value.
I hope the teachers in this thread get what you need to keep safe.
To those less than helpful, stick your cynical insults where the sun don't shine.

The science is that they think you can get R below 1 whilst schools remain open, provided you reduce contact between people elsewhere. Various experts - paediatricians, psychologists, economists, social workers, etc, are in agreement that the risks of keeping schools open are outweighed by the risks of closing them. Schools not only provide an academic education, they also provide many other community services (health screening, mass immunisations, safeguarding, food, socialisation, etc), and a sense of direction and purpose for young people who otherwise just see chaos, unemployment, and a lack of useful skills as a general prospect. It’s not just a childcare issue, although resorting to grandparents to help with childcare, or leaving teenagers unsupervised for hours at a time, is an obvious example of where you are just swapping risks, not reducing them. What’s the alternative? Sending teachers directly into the homes of families who for one reason or another are not engaging with long-distance education to find out why? Or pretending social services could possibly cope with the hugely increased burden of finding out what might be going on behind closed doors during a pandemic?

I’m a teacher, I know NO teachers that would prefer schools to be shut.
The unions do not speak for me or my colleagues.

On Mumsnet you get a different impression

Frankly, if you are locking down large swathes of the economy, you are making it increasingly vital for schools to remain open, as the effect this is having on families can then be kept out in the open - you see the effects on society through its children. This is better than hiding the problem away. Schools need more money, though, to minimise the risks and cope with the burden.

I have a child with very complex needs and a child at primary. I am also working 5 days a week. I cannot tell even begin to write what the first lockdown did to us. It was sheer hell for both out mental and also physical health. I totally crumbled under the stress and have no burn out. I know a lot of parents struggled similarly esp among parents with severely disabled children. All backed up by data. Not sure what you don't understand about it. Some things are far worse than trying to hide away from Covid!

I'm a teacher. No teachers I know want schools to shut. We want support in keeping things as safe as possible

@Lavenderseas

*I’m a teacher, I know NO teachers that would prefer schools to be shut. The unions do not speak for me or my colleagues.*

On Mumsnet you get a different impression

Really? I don't recall any teachers saying they didn't want to go back (though there might have been some fearful ones) when the unions were trying to make sure that schools would be safe before they opened.

Even if I'm wrong, the vast majority of teacher MNers wanted schools to open. But they wanted assurances that they'd be safe. If anything there were a lot of parents who weren't happy about their children going back.

@Deliaskis

I did also see somebody post some graphs in another thread that seemed to show numbers coming down in Wales and Northern Ireland, who also have everything closed except schools. It's on page one of one of the schools threads.

I think that's exactly the opposite way round for Northern Ireland.

According to the BBC www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54533643, they closed schools last month. My impression is that numbers then got better, and I understand that they are now poised to re-open schools.