What was the science behind schools staying open?

[OneofPansPeople]

Missed the briefing last night so I wondered what the scientific data was that allowed schools to stay open?
It appears to be a very contentious subject but I wanted to try and stay away from the argumentative threads.

There’s not a lot of strong evidence of spread in primary schools. Secondary schools do seem to have outbreaks, but it’s unclear the extent to which this contributes to general spread/ the progress of the epidemic.
Meanwhile closing schools is entails huge human, social, educational, economic, health costs, most especially for vulnerable children and families.
So it’s the balance the government has taken.

Yet another post saying I missed the briefing blah blah- did it say this? What about that.

Q:Why can't you just watch it?
A: Because then i wouldn't be able to start a divisive thread in Mumsnet and get people wound up.

Its about the 8th thread today with all the faux innocence

are you really so dense you can't understand that there are lots of issues to balance right now and not everyone is willing to throw all children under the bus for this virus?

OR.... not everyone is willing to throw all children under the bus for the sake of the economy.

@OneofPansPeople clearly not, your questions are moronic and months out of date. God help us all with ignorance like this.

@movingagain20 I agree, I'm in favour of keeping schools open, I'm just trying to assess the government's logic.

@OneofPansPeople

Ah, I see , presumably most teachers prefer closure?

No actually. Most teachers just want funding, procedures and equipment to help make schools safer to work and learn in. As has shown, the government keep pretending that schools are currently safe but sidestepped how they are safe they aren’t currently

@Arosadra how are children being thrown under the bus for the economy? (Although you do realise young people and children are extremely vulnerable too in a bad economy, you can't isolate the issues). Children need school, they need education.

In Ireland there is a lot of ‘massaging’ of the figures. We are continuously being told schools are staying open because school children aren’t super spreaders.

The daily figures show the rate of infection has dropped. However, the schools are closed for midterm.

Parents have set up a Facebook page called Alerting parents of outbreaks in schools Ireland and the numbers being given on this page are multiples of the official figures being given by the Gov.

It is very much present in primary schools.

Schools remain open so parents can work. Who knows how long for if their children carry the virus home.

@Sargass0

Yet another post saying I missed the briefing blah blah- did it say this? What about that.

Q:Why can't you just watch it?
A: Because then i wouldn't be able to start a divisive thread in Mumsnet and get people wound up.

Its about the 8th thread today with all the faux innocence

Agree.

This suggests that a short lockdown including schools will be far more effective and quicker than a lengthier lockdown keeping them open.

I suspect schools may have to close for a couple of extra weeks in December anyway if this doesn’t work. The government does seem to delay decision making so that by the time they implement something, it is too late to be effective.

I believe that the idea is that by closing down so much else the schools being open won’t be such a danger. Ultimately though it’s done to comparing the risk of MH and long term impact by closing versus keeping them open. So the science might say close them from a covid perspective but the science regarding MH and general wellbeing etc says to keep them open.

What was the science behind any of it?

@OneofPansPeople

Ah, I see , presumably most teachers prefer closure?

No. The many teachers in my life were all keen to go back. BUT they want PPE and for secondary school kids to wear masks, and older primary kids to be encouraged to (but have the choice)

There are lots of reasons for keeping schools open.

This study by the bmj actually predicts long term deaths to be higher as a result of school closures

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/closing-uk-schools-more-deaths-lockdown-study-coronavirus-2020-10%3famp

Or this:

Lockdown school closures may have increased risk of abuse for vulnerable children, new UK study finds

www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2020/09/lockdown-risk-for-vulnerable-children.aspx

Or this:

UK children could ‘lose 3% of lifetime earnings’ due to lockdown school closures

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/24/uk-children-could-lose-3-of-lifetime-earnings-due-to-lockdown-school-closures

I am a teacher. I want schools open and am not concerned about being safe. We keep 2m distance from students and do an important job. I am happy to do that job, come home to my kids, and go nowhere else.

Kids are stealth spreaders, they are often asymptotic so it’s hard to tell they are spreading it but anyone that thinks otherwise is bonkers.

The virus is not the only issue in the world, which some people seem to have forgotten.

That is why schools are and will be staying open. To educate our D.C. and ensure they do not suffer reduced life chances and life expectancy.

@OneofPansPeople Not closure, jsut something to make staying open safer and more sustainable. Secondary in areas with higher numbers need to move into the school tier 2 system, which is having students in on a rota. Fewer people in school, therefore reduced chance of transmission, therefore fewer people isolating. This will keep schools open with much less disruption. 6th form colleges are already on rotas, and at my school we have a large 6th form, but these near adults are in full time in large classes.

We haven't had had a week since 14th September where we have had all year groups in and I expect it to get worse after a half term where they are all mixing.

This study by the bmj actually predicts long term deaths to be higher as a result of school closures

Dubious of any study which was based on the idea that there wouldn't be transmission in schools. Everyone (apart from teachers) seems to be a bit surprised with how things have panned out.

And Germany, France and Ireland all recognise the importance of keeping schools open during any lockdown.

@noblegiraffe

Schools are all COVID- secure and there is no evidence the virus is being transmitted in classrooms.

Dr Jenny Harries has been very clear that any risk of transmission in schools comes from teachers and staff gathering together in informal settings.

Staff rooms and coffee breaks are the biggest risk in schools, not D.C.

Schools are not “safe”. But the harm of closing them is seen to outweigh the harm in keeping them open.

[quote Ecosse]@noblegiraffe

Schools are all COVID- secure and there is no evidence the virus is being transmitted in classrooms.

Dr Jenny Harries has been very clear that any risk of transmission in schools comes from teachers and staff gathering together in informal settings.

Staff rooms and coffee breaks are the biggest risk in schools, not D.C.[/quote]
What?? COVID secure?? Are you dreaming? I work in a large inner city secondary school. I am shitting myself about going back to school tomorrow. There is no chance any school in this country is COVID secure. We couldn't operate if we were.