Locking down to protect the well off

[IheartNiles]

Lockdowns protect the well off middle classes who can work from home in safe jobs. Lockdowns throw the working classes under the bus. The latter either take all the risk in public facing jobs, commuting on public transport, while their kids are left at home to educate selves. Or lose their jobs and income altogether.

It’s really depressing to hear women agitating for schools to shut. The repercussions of doing so are that WOMEN lose their jobs to perform childcare.

A high proportion of people who use this site need to pull their heads out of their overpriveged arses and take a look around. All the fucking shops and services you rely on are going to be decimated. No money will be forthcoming for the NHS without taxes. The NHS was cut to the bone after the last recession, the magic money tree that wasn’t there to increase nurses pay and might have helped mitigate against the current 40,000 and rising vacancies has shook bloody long and hard to pay for the consequences. Tell me how we are going to make this good because I can’t fucking see anything but misery ahead for the poorest among us.

I got the impression that locking down was a desperate attempt to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and thousands of extra people dying.

What do you think will happen in hospitals if we don’t take any action?

That would be true @noblegiraffe if this wasn’t being driven by media hysteria.

Is suspect if we didn’t have social media or millionaire Journalists getting wound up we wouldn’t have had such long lockdowns or restrictions.

I agree with you OP. I'm now so worried about my DPs job. We will lose our home if he loses his job and they won't survive another lockdown.

I take your point and I don’t want lockdown either, but perspective matters here.

You say lockdowns protect the middle classes who can work from home, but all those middle class doctors, pharmacists, teachers, vets, dentists, etc probably won’t feel very protected against this virus that’s supposed to be so terrible.

All the working classes who were able to stay at home on furlough because their workplaces were in retail or hospitality were protected both from the virus and financially.

The biggest hit is to small business owners, who span across the classes.

While women may have to make the biggest sacrifice to look after their children if schools close, it’s also predominantly women whose health is most at risk if schools stay open.

Whichever way you look at this from, there will be misery for everyone. The rich will have nicer surroundings for their misery than those of us on low or middle incomes, but it’s not helpful to argue about whose lockdown related problems are worse.

The hospital I work in in London has 15 inpatients. Last time we locked down it was very busy and what happened is as well as covid numbers falling all the other patients refused to come in. The hospital then emptied fast (within 2 weeks pretty much was empty) but society stayed closed for 4 months, with kids away from education for 6. Why was that??

In my hospital (which is a highly efficient organisation) we are still trying to catch up with all the missed cancer cases and treatments.

There is a BBC report this morning saying these measures may have to go on for 5 years. How many in our society will endless lockdowns kill and permanently harm the chances of? Those people will disproportionately be the poor and the young.

I know it’s a difficult balance. But there is a gleeful response on Mumsnet to any announces of lockdowns and an agitating for schools to be closed that I just don’t hear in the working class community that supports middle class mumsnetters being able to be kept ‘safe’ in their little stepford wife existence.

I agree with you but also that SME will get hit harder this time and that includes mc

Do you think we need to lockdown now to protect the NHS @IheartNiles?

@NailsNeedDoing. You say: You say lockdowns protect the middle classes who can work from home, but all those middle class doctors, pharmacists, teachers, vets, dentists, etc probably won’t feel very protected against this virus that’s supposed to be so terrible.

Actually most of the above were safely protected during the first wave. Where I work most senior doctors and pharmacists worked from home the whole time. Dentists shut and most are still only doing emergencies ie not doing anywhere near their previous workload. Vet surgeries ditto.

Aside from ITU and support doctors it was the nurses, cleaners, porters who faced the pandemic and ran the hospitals.

Absolutely agree OP.

The time to lockdown was in short bursts at the beginning. Which would have allowed resources to sustain further short bursts. You’ve now got the usual scientists (note safe jobs) agitating for 6 week minimum lockdown. It’s unnecessary. The situation in London hospitals was awful last time but resolved after 2-3 weeks. Yet we stayed locked down. Why??

Where I work most senior doctors and pharmacists worked from home the whole time

Pharmacists, really? And dentists around here are absolutely full up trying to catch up while managing social distancing restrictions.

Agree with the general point - also I'd add those who were not working to begin with, such as comfortably off retired people - but think it's not so simple as saying that it's just about class.

My vet never closed.

If you want to win the masses to your side of the argument you might find tempering your criticisms helps. Stating that anyone who’s worried about Covid, their kid’s education, their family members dying is some sort of unreasonable privileged arsehole isn’t going to win anyone round. The whole thing is shit and you’re entitled to a rant but people have all sorts of things going on in their lives that you may not know about and telling them they’re selfish bastards might make you feel better but isn’t going to get anyone to agree.

The longer retail and hospitality stay open, surely the longer lower paid workers are at risk? The middle class can stay at home as you say so a lockdown protects the working class.

There is a health disparity with some of the poorest having the worst health outcomes and that also applies to Covid. The quicker we can get cases dropping rather than increasing the better for the working class.

And I say all of this as someone who comes from one of the top 5 most deprived constituencies in the country

Senior doctors maybe, but the point really is that people are different, some want more protection against the virus, some want more protection financially, some want normality for the sake of mental health. Nearly every group of people is affected negatively in some way, the middle classes need to earn to pay their mortgages just as much as the working classes need to work to pay their rent. Lockdown doesn’t protect the middle classes, it protects the retired.

It’s not just that group of workers though is it? It’s teachers (who worked providing keyworkers childcare so never stopped working), vets, doctors, nurses, dentists (they reopened as soon as they could here and have really extended opening hours to ensure people can get in), pharmacists etc.

Yes some people can work from home but it’s not limited to the well off, many call centre staff on min wage worked from home for example.

As for childcare only impacting women, that depends on your household set up. If you set it that way then of course it does but many couples share it and split the impact between them.

Lockdowns protect the NHS, that's clear.

However as constructed today, all the benefits accrue to the wealthy, particularly the older wealthy, and almost all the costs fall on the younger and particularly the poorer.

It is disgustingly unequal, and lockdowns without acknowledging that fact and doing things to mitigate it are disgusting. Of course, the people who voted for this government are all in the benefit side of the lockdown equation.

The cost/benefit needs to be reset, so all the costs don't fall on people who get no benefit. Sadly, the only realistic way to do that is either with money, or with tighter restrictions on those with most to benefit, both are extremely hard (ie lock away all the at risk people, or fund a basic income via wealth taxes, lower pensions etc.)

So far, the entire UK strategy is just stoking the intergenerational conflict that already existed with the older generations taking a disproportionate share of the pie, covid was actually the time when the changes necessary to address that conflict could have been implemented, but there was no appetite (not that there was likely to be with a conservative government)

I don’t give a fuck if you agree or not. But to pretend agitators for lockdowns aren’t coming over as gleeful and selfish is disingenuous.

@NailsNeedDoing

Senior doctors maybe, but the point really is that people are different, some want more protection against the virus, some want more protection financially, some want normality for the sake of mental health. Nearly every group of people is affected negatively in some way, the middle classes need to earn to pay their mortgages just as much as the working classes need to work to pay their rent. Lockdown doesn’t protect the middle classes, it protects the retired.

Not many working class jobs can be done from home can they? I’m struggling to think of one. Loads of middle class ones exist. And yes the well off retired will be fine financially and need to be told to cough up at the end of this.

So at the moment the working classes have 2 not very appealing outcomes. They are disproportionately fucked.

You know I think if there were more posts along the lines of “oh crap how awful this is happening again” or acknowledging the impact on people on low pay it wouldn’t stick in my craw half as much as it does. In reality all you read on here is crowing and agitating.

The poor and vulnerable get fucked over in all scenarios.

When a country is broke the poor and vulnerable suffer the most.

Therefore I would rather we saved the economy so we have money to help them over the next 20 years.

I would end all lockdowns. I would continue to run large scale public health campaigns about infection control.

The NHS is overwhelmed every winter. Ending lockdown might speed up the attempts to join up planning of social care and NHS, so we do more palliative care outside of hospitals, thus reducing the NHS overwhelm.

My elderly uncle died of covid in hospital. He would have preferred to die at home or in a home but the system is not geared up to enable it.

@NailsNeedDoing

I take your point and I don’t want lockdown either, but perspective matters here.

You say lockdowns protect the middle classes who can work from home, but all those middle class doctors, pharmacists, teachers, vets, dentists, etc probably won’t feel very protected against this virus that’s supposed to be so terrible.

All the working classes who were able to stay at home on furlough because their workplaces were in retail or hospitality were protected both from the virus and financially.

The biggest hit is to small business owners, who span across the classes.

While women may have to make the biggest sacrifice to look after their children if schools close, it’s also predominantly women whose health is most at risk if schools stay open.

Whichever way you look at this from, there will be misery for everyone. The rich will have nicer surroundings for their misery than those of us on low or middle incomes, but it’s not helpful to argue about whose lockdown related problems are worse.

This!!!

DP is a GP trainee, currently working in hospital in his current rotation. Two consultants from his ward now have Covid. One of them is now in hospital as he is suffering so badly, only in his 40s. I feel so horrible thinking how his poor family must feel right now.

I fucking hate people who moan about the middle class being 'safe'. Teachers, drs, nurses, dentists all suffer immense risk.

There's misery for everyone, wish people would stop trying to enhance a meaningless class war. If you have to target any 'class' then put your attention to the ruling classes who post a much bigger problem imo.

I'd say for every poster for a lockdown plenty are against, and the majority want schools etc to stay open, so not sure what you are on about in the context of MN really.

I agree OP

If everyone stuck to social distancing rules I feel we could have avoided this.

It’s depressing news today. And I say that as a middle class person who saved money in lockdown and has a safe flexible job.

Also a lot of admin min wage jobs here are WFH, are they propelled to the middle class by virtue of being able to work from home (many against their will, when our office reopened people were really keen to get back)- they will be delighted I'm sure to know they are climbing the class ladder.

100% agree OP.