Schools MUST stay open.

[motherrunner]

I hear this a lot on MN.

Schools maybe ‘open’ but they’re not really depending on where you live.

I’m in Tier 2, due to go into Tier 3 next week prior to the lockdown rules.

Since Sept Yr 10 have isolated twice (4 weeks out of a 8 week half term), Yr 12 and 13 three times (6 weeks of a 8 week half term). My own DS is isolating due to being in contact with a positive until next week and I am isolating until next week as one of my pupils tested positive (and before anyone asks why I wasn’t 2m away well let’s just say, that’s school life).

Before lockdown in March my school had to close just to the numbers of staff off, at one point admin staff were supervising classes.

This morning I read a comment from a poster on the ‘lockdown my thread that teachers just have to ‘hope’ they get a mild viral load. Have we become so disillusioned with this virus that because “schools must stay open” then we minimise they health of school staff?

I am happy to be back teaching my pupils, I’m not happy that I feel unsafe. I am not happy that other workplaces have ‘Covid secure’ measures but I have sanitiser and a ‘hope for the best’ attitude.

So, if you really want schools to stay open then please email your MP and voice concerns about safety and hopefully we can stay open in a meaningful way because there’s a difference between ‘schools open’ with us delivering a quality education and ‘schools open’ with a body providing childcare.

How long do you propose we shut schools/do blended learning for? Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) or some other timescale
Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

@ShulaArcher

So, if you really want schools to stay open then please email your MP and voice concerns about safety

I wrote to my Tory MP prior to schools going back in Sept asking him what his Govt was doing to ensure the safety of pupils and teachers and if he personally had been in touch with schools in his constituency to check staff were satisfied with arrangements. From his vague reply, I doubt he had been but it's important we keep the pressure on our MPs so they know that we are watching how they are treating our children and their teachers during a pandemic FFS. I'll drop him a line again this weekend.

OP - I have DC in Yr 11&13 so (other than a circuit breaker) I want them to remain in school. What steps could be taken that would make you and your colleagues feel safe? I'm not a teacher, but would you prefer blended learning, teaching behind a perspex screen, pupils wearing masks, teachers in visors?

I'll be honest, from what I've seen, your unions have badly let you down over this. I'm not absolving the Govt in any way but the unions don't appear to have done their job and protect their members.

@ShulaArcher. Thank you for lobbying your MP. It’s all we can do at the moment, keep the preside in to ensure schools are forgotten.

Personally I feel the safest when I teach my Yr 10 class. I am roomed in an art room for it and its large, airy, well ventilated and I can safely distance from the class. I feel most vulnerable teaching my sixth formers in a classroom that used to be an office that doesn’t even have a window. As we can’t widen classroom and even if we hired more spaces we can’t magic up new teachers, I think we should have a rota system so class sizes can be smaller. I know that’s not a popular view but I think those people saying schools must open regardless have not experienced a closure. The parents of the pupils I teach are very concerned about the closures we have had and it will only increase.

@Whatchasayin

How long do you propose we shut schools/do blended learning for? Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) or some other timescale Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

Have you answered the question about what changes you’d like to happen to enable them to stay open without massive disruption?

@Scbchl but those jobs aren’t in small poorly ventilated spaces with large numbers of people with no mitigation other than a bit of hand gel. (Other than some of the NHS - and that doesn’t make it right).

My local primary had no cases prior to half term. Three year groups now not returning next week due to cases.

I teach in secondary - there is a big spectrum between SCHOOLS MUST STAY OPEN and CLOSING SCHOOLS. Personally I think a proper two week circuit breaker including half term would have been sensible, followed by a blended learning approach (tier 2 of school tiers) for secondary.

As teachers, of course we want to be in the classroom with our students ‘as normal’ but given the time and support (resources/time to plan) we could make it work as best we can and probably provide a more stable learning situation than is the current hokey comet. I have approx 25% of my classes off at any give time - but I don’t know in advance who this will be. It makes providing effective remote learning tricky. If I know who will be in and when I can work with that.

First lockdown we had nothing - we now have Teams and some idea of what we’re doing. We know who we need/want in school for various reasons and who could work at home. However the government has given us no money, time and just cut the laptop allocations so yet again we’re shafted. We have high numbers of PP we though we had devices for and now don’t.

The idea that the government are keeping schools open ‘because of the children’ is laughable. They’ve cut laptops, voted against free school meals and failed to bother with any mitigation/safety.

@Whatchasayin

How long do you propose we shut schools/do blended learning for? Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) or some other timescale Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

@Whatchasayin

But no-one has said they want schools closed. We’re looking for ways that schools can stay open in a meaningful way. My A-level pupils have been out of school more than in this last half term.

@Ijustcantcope

I wish teachers would strike and refuse to go in. I would be fully behind them. It’s criminal the way that they are being treated and I sincerely hope one of them sues the government.

It’s absolutely ridiculous not to have had the lockdown over half term and schools closed for 2 weeks. That would not have caused much difficulty for anyone and would have brought cases down quicker. Just when you thought the government couldn’t get any shittier........

Ecosse will be along shortly to tell you that schools should be open no matter what and that they should also stop testing children/teachers so that people don’t know the extent of the problem

I’d be behind them too. Likewise I’d like to see cases from staff under health and safety.

Those demanding they stay open because it suits them is getting very old. The staff deserve protection as do the many vulnerable families the children go home too.

I also think parents who send their children in sick or who are caught not complying with SI when bubbles close etc should automatically have places withdrawn.

The year groups in which Covid is most common are also the ones from which most pupils won't wear masks (and that will soon filter.down to year 7). I'm told I can't insist.

What I can do is, once I end up with Covid, out my feet up and rest at home until I'm fully better. Very few people give the tiniest shit about teachers' health. I will not be working through illness caused, inevitably, through lack of mitigation measures - lazy bastard that I am

@Whatchasayin

How long do you propose we shut schools/do blended learning for? Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) or some other timescale Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

When you ask a question with a comment of (ie home learning forever?) I just could not be bothered to respond.

Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

We've got normal flu season coming so it's to support the nhs.

I personally think a circuit breaker over half term would have been useful. Then part time in some areas.

We then need regular and mass testing brought in, set up before they go back.

I keep being told by an nhs friend that The vaccine is still on track to be rolled out in December (still not sure how much to believe this; he's pretty high up and very sure); giving this to all vulnerable people and front line staff such as teachers and nhs workers would be sensible.

So you would hope for the next few weeks.

It's not going to happen according to the leaks though.

@monkeytennis97 wrote this I hope parents would keep their children off if they are able to
How long would she like parents to keep their DC off school for?

@NeurotrashWarrior thank you. That makes sense.

I would like the option to keep my children at home and do home learning but at the moment this option isn’t available (usual fines in place for non-attendance). I have a DH who is working from home and myself works in school A, while my youngest is at school B and my eldest at school C, so 3 different schools mixing in our household. My eldest is also vulnerable, which is why I would like the option to keep them at home. I can also work from home in my role. I appreciate that some parents will struggle to support home learning for differing reasons but for those who can, this option would be welcomed. It would also help to reduce numbers in classrooms. However, I also appreciate the difficulty this would bring to teachers trying to teach in the classroom and set online work.

@Sunflowers246

With GCSEs and A levels going ahead, years 11-13 absolutely meet to be in school.

It would not be a fair otherwise as many kids don't have access to laptops or have space at home.

And if exams were cancelled again, you'd have another chaotic situation about grading and many kids giving up learning/revising.

Kids aren't much affected by the virus anyway.

It’s untrue that “kids aren’t much affected by the virus anyway.”

The majority may not be, but my ds caught covid back in March, was very ill for a week or so, then had ongoing symptoms caused by covid for 5 months after. He was much better throughout September and October but has just had a bad relapse during half term. From talking to his consultant, I know he’s not the only child to be suffering like this.

And yes, flu can also have long lasting effects. That’s why he has the flu vaccine every year, like the majority of children, to protect him against flu. There’s no vaccine for coronavirus so it’s obviously not a fair comparison.

Kids can be affected by the virus. It just seems to be the luck of the draw and my completely healthy, no underlying conditions 10 year old was not lucky at all.

@Whatchasayin

How long do you propose we shut schools/do blended learning for? Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) or some other timescale?

People aren't answering your question because 1) no one can know exactly what will happen in a fluid situation like a pandemic - we can say 'we will do x until y happens' or wl'we can do x for z amount of weeks and then look at the situation' 2) you have inserted a nice bit of hyperbole in there with your Until the virus is eliminated (ie. home learning forever) - as we know the virus isn't going to be "eliminated", it's not an enemy force, it's a virus. We will have a vaccine within the next year - this will obviously change the situation which is a fluid one (see above) 3) I think most people want to see a way that schools can stay fully open in the longer term, by putting in short term controls, or by having a plan that accepts that there may have to be blended learning or some short term closures (e.g. extended holidays at half terms and Christmas that involve remote learning) until a vaccine is rolled out.

Sorry to hear your DS has had a relapse, Tax, that’s really worrying.

I hope he recovers quickly and stays well.

@Roo1000

I would like the option to keep my children at home and do home learning but at the moment this option isn’t available (usual fines in place for non-attendance). I have a DH who is working from home and myself works in school A, while my youngest is at school B and my eldest at school C, so 3 different schools mixing in our household. My eldest is also vulnerable, which is why I would like the option to keep them at home. I can also work from home in my role. I appreciate that some parents will struggle to support home learning for differing reasons but for those who can, this option would be welcomed. It would also help to reduce numbers in classrooms. However, I also appreciate the difficulty this would bring to teachers trying to teach in the classroom and set online work.

I agree with this.

callme teachers have masks and don’t have to touch anyone. NHS has masks plus a wee plastic pinny and gloves because we are touching / examining patients and need to be closer than 2m to do this.
Teachers don’t need more than masks surely if they stick to the rules and in Scotland teachers are wearing masks if they want to/ plus in corridors etc alongside pupils

Supermarket workers have huge numbers of contacts compared to teachers so your point there is not really valid

Can someone answer my question about how long they'd like DC to be off school for?

My view is probably skewed by being in tier 3. 4 out of 5 year groups have missed at least 2 weeks due to cases in bubbles. Another two off for nearly 4.

Some kids have missed nearly 6 after being identified as close contacts.

I think that data is going to be needed on how cases or hospitalisations are affected by schools staying open or closed. We also know that if we defer stronger measures subsequent action has to be harsher and last longer to have the same effect.

It might be sensible to switch secondaries to online only or the rota system of week on week off for 2 weeks at least on tier 3 and maybe tier 2 areas.

In the meantime there should be proactive monitoring or school outbreaks and a system for how to deal with outbreaks in specific schools put in place to allow them to stay open with less disruption going forward

I think it is possible that a well observed lockdown without schools closing could bring down R to around 1.

There are two issues with this:

Firstly, cases would drop only very slowly, if at all, so this kind of lockdown would not provide a great deal of breathing room before we were back up to the same position.

Secondly, can the NHS cope if it continues to get hospitalisations at the rate it is now? I'm not certain we have the capacity even for that.

What we should do is a full closure of all non-essentials including schools for 3 weeks, followed by the same but with schools open for the next 3 weeks. This would reduce cases, then keep them lower.

What I think we will do is the opposite: have it with schools open, and then closed, because after 3 weeks, we realise what we did wasn't enough.

This may sound like it would get us to the same position in the end, but it wouldn't. If we reduce first, then maintain, we have the reducing amounts in hospitals for 3 weeks, followed by a lower rate for 3 weeks and hospitals are less strained.

If we maintain then reduce, hospitals have 3 weeks at the higher rate, then 3 weeks at the reducing rate.

Overall, the difference would be exchanging 3 weeks at a lower rate for 3 weeks at a higher rate.

teachers have masks

We have what now?

DfE guidance only mandates masks in corridors in lockdown areas, and says their use should be avoided in classrooms.

I think half term should have been used to keep dc in for a minimum of two weeks.
Then back to school and a national lock down for a month.

Sanitiser is a placebo, it's an airborne virus.

"teachers have masks"

My school have masks in corridors, staff meetings and we are allowed to wear visors or masks in lessons if we have to circulate in the room. You can't really teach in a mask so you can't wear it when explaining tasks etc.

We still had 30% of staff off with covid

Wearing a mask protects the other person..
For a teacher to be protected all students would need to wear masks. Properly. Along side, sanitising and good ventilation.

@noideaatallreally

It would be nice if all parents could do their bit in supporting the schools and helping to keep everyone safe. I read in horror on MN a thread yesterday about a sleepover planned for half term. But don't worry - no rules were being broken because one sibling was going to sleep elsewhere that night! Unbelievable - teachers and support staff are working like crazy to wipe down desks, working in cold classrooms with the windows open and yet those same children leave the classroom and go and have sleepovers.

Yes. In addition, there are young adults in Secondary schools dating (people on Mumsnet often forget that happens in these discussions!) and whatever procedures schools try to desperately put in place, it all counts for nothing if this level of contact (kissing etc.) is happening.

2 of our cases at my school were because of this. Neither sets of parents thought to tell the school their teens (17 and 18 years old were not only dating but the fact they were ‘living together’ at the time of testing. More positive cases occurred in the Sixth Form due to them meeting up with their friends outside of school, closing these two very important year groups down for 14 days!
Teachers want schools to stay open but are being shut down when they try to give the actual reasons as to why they are instead, closing. Burying heads in the sand, claiming schools are safe from Covid19, is not helping.

teachers have masks

DS secondary school masks are mandatory in the corridors and communal areas and are optional in classrooms this is for both pupils and teachers. DS says usually the teacher doesn't wear a mask when stood at the front of the class but puts it on if they need to move around the class.