France considering a four week lockdown, possibly Germany too

[Redolent]

Lots of speculation about what this might involve in France - Guardian is reporting closure of all pubs and restaurants, but still keeping schools open. Or maybe closing secondary schools and keeping primary ones open. Announcement due today.

In Germany it’s being billed as a light November lockdown: schools stay open, pubs close, restaurants takeaway only etc

We’re normally a couple of weeks behind. Do you think nationwide action in other European countries will make it more likely here? Are we going to have ‘lockdown to save Christmas‘, or just more more tiers?

At the end of the two further European countries have joined Ireland and slovina in shutting down but not shutting all schools, *the “shut down state education in the U.K.” movement has been dealt a bit if a blow tonight.
*

I don't think many people would support shutting down schools

I think all Governments understand the importance of keeping schools open, even if it means closing other parts of society.

Don’t German schools have a lot more mitigation than UK ones? We were a bit ‘will no one think of the children, they’re all going to be mentally scarred by wearing a mask’ over here. And Germany has instigated it’s lockdown at an earlier point in its rise in cases so it probably has a bit more freedom to get stuff under control without needing to close schools,

Most Governments understand the importance of keeping schools open. I think even Boris does!

And Germany has instigated it’s lockdown at an earlier point in its rise in cases so it probably has a bit more freedom to get stuff under control without needing to close schools,

But France has a much higher incidence and is also keeping schools open.

The risk of COVID to children is very low.

@Sonnenscheins

And Germany has instigated it’s lockdown at an earlier point in its rise in cases so it probably has a bit more freedom to get stuff under control without needing to close schools,

But France has a much higher incidence and is also keeping schools open.

The risk of COVID to children is very low.

I don't know how many more times this needs to be said but the risk to children may be low, but the risk to their vulnerable caregivers and teacher is NOT and there is NOTHING being done to lessen this risk. People will die as a result of the lack of precaution shown in opening schools.

The risk of COVID to children is very low.

The risk of children bringing their infection home to their families, who may get very ill and end up in hospital, is extremely high. A virtual certainty.

I can't socially distance from my small children.

If you allow children to get it, it will with absolute certainty spread within the general population too. Unless you're going to keep schools in a bubble and never let the teachers and children out.

but the risk to their vulnerable caregivers and teacher is NOT and there is NOTHING being done to lessen this risk.

These vulnerable people should be given the chance to stay at home with financial support.

Because unfortunately I don't think you can eliminate the virus from society and schools imo.

If you allow children to get it, it will with absolute certainty spread within the general population too. Unless you're going to keep schools in a bubble and never let the teachers and children out.

I think a very large proportion of University students and children have had or have Covid, the vast majority asymptomatically.

I think a very large proportion of University students and children have had or have Covid, the vast majority asymptomatically.

Yes, the university students, if following the rules, won't have spread it much because not living with older age groups. Yet we see a huge increase in older age groups now. 6/7 weeks after schools opened. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's happened.

Good luck to them, I think it is a very cynical approach. The lockdowns will do nothing and will have a minor impact whilst schools are open. If they do everything and still leave schools open, when the shit is still hitting the fan come the start of December. They can then say they tried and they will be forced to shut schools.

In this country, we don’t have half of the mitigation of other countries. COVID is now in exponential territory and there is a marked increase in the age groups where you’d find teachers and parents of school age children.

It is all well and good saying schools must stay open, yes they must. They won’t if COVID is running through teacher/parent population exponentially with overwhelmed hospitals in December.

If you want schools to actually stay open, you should be campaigning for the government to actually do something about them.

In this country, we don’t have half of the mitigation of other countries. COVID is now in exponential territory and there is a marked increase in the age groups where you’d find teachers and parents of school age children. It is all well and good saying schools must stay open, yes they must. They won’t if COVID is running through teacher/parent population exponentially with overwhelmed hospitals in December. If you want schools to actually stay open, you should be campaigning for the government to actually do something about them.

Agree 100%

Anyone who's heard interviews with students (especially an excellent piece of student-led journalism yesterday morning on Radio 4) will know that many students have NOT been following the rules, and institutions just don't have the staff (or will? not sure) to police them.

If they do everything and still leave schools open, when the shit is still hitting the fan come the start of December. They can then say they tried and they will be forced to shut schools.

I've thought this too. They didn't have the balls to say anything when we could have made a difference.

There are also a lot of unpleasant things being said now about schools, parents, teachers and children on other forums where it's more representative of people without children, in vulnerable jobs. This roar will get louder too.

If they do everything and still leave schools open, when the shit is still hitting the fan come the start of December. They can then say they tried and they will be forced to shut schools.

I think this is exactly what will happen.

If you want schools to actually stay open, you should be campaigning for the government to actually do something about them.

This exactly. Shouting ‘schools must NOT close’ will not keep them open. People who want them to remain open, should be campaigning for more funding and better risk mitigations in schools instead. Sticking your fingers in your ears and thinking it won’t happen because you don’t want it to, is pointless.

@Redlocks28

If they do everything and still leave schools open, when the shit is still hitting the fan come the start of December. They can then say they tried and they will be forced to shut schools.

I think this is exactly what will happen.

If you want schools to actually stay open, you should be campaigning for the government to actually do something about them.

This exactly. Shouting ‘schools must NOT close’ will not keep them open. People who want them to remain open, should be campaigning for more funding and better risk mitigations in schools instead. Sticking your fingers in your ears and thinking it won’t happen because you don’t want it to, is pointless.

Exactly. Not to mention following the rules/guidelines at all times. Many aren’t bothering as the children are in school so see no point or seem to think the school bubble applies to them outside of school.

Shouting ‘schools must NOT close’ will not keep them open. People who want them to remain open, should be campaigning for more funding and better risk mitigations in schools instead.

I totally agree and am going to email my MP.

Schools may be technically open but with the number of children and staff now needing to self isolate there may not be many pupils who are allowed to attend soon! Certainly in secondary schools I would not be surprised to see a rota system after Christmas if not before - it may be the best chance to deliver constant lessons to all pupils and avoid total school closure.

Schools will remain open even in the peak this time. The highly vulnerable (and if that includes teachers) will be asked to shield and everyone else will continue as normal. I guess there might also be an upper age limit of possibly sixty or so potentially which shouldn't be a major problem. All other keyworkers continue to work through, fire, police, medics, courts, factories and retail etc all carry on working - schools will adopt the same model this time, and should have done so the last time as well. We didn't know what we know now, that middle aged and young people are not badly affected unless they have certain underlying health conditions.

In terms of other industries, I hope they keep as much open as possible this time.

Children from clinically vulnerable families will also work remotely.

I read that in the north of england the rates of people currently infectious is 1 in 37. It is amazing schools are still managing to function at all with those rates. I guess it does point to a likelihood that schools will stay open throughout

@Friendsoftheearth

Schools will remain open even in the peak this time. The highly vulnerable (and if that includes teachers) will be asked to shield and everyone else will continue as normal. I guess there might also be an upper age limit of possibly sixty or so potentially which shouldn't be a major problem. All other keyworkers continue to work through, fire, police, medics, courts, factories and retail etc all carry on working - schools will adopt the same model this time, and should have done so the last time as well. We didn't know what we know now, that middle aged and young people are not badly affected unless they have certain underlying health conditions.

In terms of other industries, I hope they keep as much open as possible this time.

Courts remained open? I’ll tweet that to the secret barrister. See what they have to say. They did not and the justice system is a mess. Thanks for the laugh though.

My sons school closed before ‘lockdown’ because with SI and shielding, they didn’t have enough staff. The same is happening again. Your plan will not keep schools open, they will end up closing.

Schools will remain open even in the peak this time

In your opinion. I disagree.

The highly vulnerable (and if that includes teachers) will be asked to shield

If this does happen-we will have a number of key staff members off in my school, including the head. Perhaps we are unusual, I don’t know. Unless the government pay for us to replace them, several classes would have no teacher.

I read that in the north of england the rates of people currently infectious is 1 in 37. It is amazing schools are still managing to function at all with those rates. I guess it does point to a likelihood that schools will stay open throughout

I think a lot more children and teens have already had covid (with or without symptoms) and will hopefully have some immunity for a while.

I know that most Uni students have had covid, mostly asymptomaticaly.

@Sonnenscheins

I read that in the north of england the rates of people currently infectious is 1 in 37. It is amazing schools are still managing to function at all with those rates. I guess it does point to a likelihood that schools will stay open throughout

I think a lot more children and teens have already had covid (with or without symptoms) and will hopefully have some immunity for a while.

I know that most Uni students have had covid, mostly asymptomaticaly.

You don't "know that most uni students have had covid" at all. That's pure guesswork/conjecture. Lots of unis have had very low numbers of positive cases, whereas others have had high numbers. There are likely to be some Unis where your assumption may be true, but probably plenty where covid hasn't rampaged through the campus!

My ds is at a large Uni in Scotland and he tells me that most first years in his huge halls of residence have had covid or have been in close contact with it while isolating. Lots of asymptomatic cases or cases with very mild symptoms (eg loss of smell for a few days). In some ways it was inevitable that they'll all get it, living and partying in such close quarters!

Thankfully cases in his city are starting to fall. Hopefully they'll have some immunity for a while at least.