France considering a four week lockdown, possibly Germany too

[Redolent]

Lots of speculation about what this might involve in France - Guardian is reporting closure of all pubs and restaurants, but still keeping schools open. Or maybe closing secondary schools and keeping primary ones open. Announcement due today.

In Germany it’s being billed as a light November lockdown: schools stay open, pubs close, restaurants takeaway only etc

We’re normally a couple of weeks behind. Do you think nationwide action in other European countries will make it more likely here? Are we going to have ‘lockdown to save Christmas‘, or just more more tiers?

But as others have said germany is not a full lockdown and less strict than our current measures

@timeforanewstart

But as others have said germany is not a full lockdown and less strict than our current measures

It's not less strict, a lot more things are closing.

All bars and pubs shut (no exceptions for pubs that can serve bloody food).

All restaurants are shut except takeaways

Gyms, cinemas and theatres all to shut

No more than 10 people allowed in any indoor area

Hotels to close for tourists

Only one person per 10 sq meters allowed in a shop

In Germany from next month schools, all shops, hairdressers will remain open. In addition groups of 10 from two different house are allowed to meet inside. Churches remain open, nursing homes are still allowed to have visitors.

I don't think that's too restrictive. It's less restrictive than what I can do in a London right now.

These scientists are now saying unless there is a vaccine there is herd immunity.

Its time to find a reasonable way to live with this virus.

I get a bit annoyed with people suggesting closing schools early for Christmas so people can isolate for 2 weeks in order to have Christmas. 2 keyworkers here with no chance of a week off at that time! It's a lovely idea, I'm just jealous that it's not an option for us.

Does this make it more likely to happen in the UK do you think?
Agree it will be interesting to see what happens with them keeping schools open. I hope it still manages to be brought under control.

The only thing that will work is a full, enforceable lockdown including schools, with the government fully funding all businesses, whatever their nature. I am sick of the half hearted, slow responses to the virus from the UK government.
Give it a month of strict measures and then reopen very, very slowly, with no more than two households mixing. The virus will come back when this happens, but maybe we'll be a bit closer to an effective vaccine, and gain more knowledge about treatment. And just maybe we can have some sort of Christmas.

Germany is specifically not closing schools!

Our kids' education and mental health has to come first, at all costs imo.

The only thing that will work is a full, enforceable lockdown including schools, with the government fully funding all businesses

Firstly, that would be too expensive and devastating for the economy

Secondly, schools need to remain open.

People think we should have another lockdown, but schools have to remain open well there is no point having a lockdown whilst allowing that many to mix. I'm not advocating shutting schools, I just don't think it is effective.

There's no easy answer to this.

We probably do need to rethink what is going on with schools though as the way they are at the moment, especially secondary schools, is desperately unsafe and a powerful encouragement to virus spread. We are not really engaging with this issue in an effective way, sadly.

listen to the teaching staff for the full lowdown on whats going on in schools and how the kids are all mixing

then will you still say 'keep the schools open'

I agree with againstmachine I think it’s a shame to let so many businesses suffer during lockdown while schools are just spreading it anyway. More needs to be done to restrict spreading in schools otherwise these “lockdowns” are pretty pointless

One person per 10m squared in shops?

The security guards in bulletproof vests at the doors of Waitirose will be getting hard at the thought of being able to enforce that in England.

I just highly doubt that it spreads much in shops. It seems a shame to have to close them as it probably makes little difference

I'm in tier 3 with schools open.
There's no point of having any other restrictions while schools remain open. It's like plugging all of the holes in a leaky bucket except the biggest and then wondering where all the water's gone.

I'm seriously considering quitting my school job. Can't live with the cognitive dissonance it takes to think 'we're in a lockdown' whilst surrounded by so many people.

Not encouraging that France has gone into a strict lockdown while keeping schools open.

So after our first lockdoqn we have racked up billions of debt, it was said that it would cost every tax payer an extra £125 per month to pay it off. Leta have another lockdown, more debt more unemployment and less people paying taxes.

So what does that mean for those left paying taxes? Instead of £125 it would be what £250 a per month . Then we have a third wave, repeat, more unemployed so what it'll cost those remaining tax payers to pay the debt back, £375 per month...how many people can afford that!

Enough is enough.

You cannot shut things down destoying jobs and still have people flying in and out. It doesn't make sense.

Germany is keeping schools open.

@Cyclingmad don’t forget the spending cuts as well especially as the next round of cuts and sell offs will have to include the NHS (which a lot of people are being made redundant and homeless to protect) as there’s little else left to sell

Save the businesses and close schools. Lockdowns where schools are open can’t possibly work. Far better to go remote and stop the large daily gatherings where there’s no masks or SD. I’d imagine there are far less parents who need childcare than there are employed in businesses that would have to close. Childminders and other provision would still operate and it would create employment opportunities for new childminders etc.

At the end of the two further European countries have joined Ireland and slovina in shutting down bit not shutting all schools the “shut down state education in the U.K.” movement has been dealt a bit if a blow tonight.

Be interesting too as under any measure Germany has handled this better than the us yet us school closures get hailed on here over Germany keeping schools open! I think realistically it’s unlikely that boris will close all schools now in light of what is happening in Europe and that the much celebrated long term school closures in the us still resulting in cases rising in the majority of states...umm yep but if cause it’s just in schools it spreads I know mumsnet told me!

@Friendsoftheearth

Schools remaining open in all countries, so far no schools will be closed. At least they seem to be getting that right this time. I imagine college and universities may need to move online though.

Many unis all but have moved online.

@herecomesthsun

There's no easy answer to this.

We probably do need to rethink what is going on with schools though as the way they are at the moment, especially secondary schools, is desperately unsafe and a powerful encouragement to virus spread. We are not really engaging with this issue in an effective way, sadly.

There was no second wave until the schools went back. Obviously the schools needed to go back but not in the way they did.

There was no second wave until the autumn - the virus does seem to have some behaviour in common with other winter viruses (including other coronaviruses which cause the common cold) in spreading better in colder weather

It was one of the worst possible timings for a school return, but that's the long established rhythm of the year

France is on at least a month long lockdown, many have sited until spring?! Schools and factories will remain open, everything else will close.