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Original poster

Why is MN the only place that seems to pessimistic about a vaccine?!

109 replies

bottomsup00 · 27/10/2020 08:52

Been lurking on this board for a while.

Every time a vaccine is mentioned people seem to dismiss it, or say things like “it’s not a silver bullet” “it won’t save us” “things won’t go back to normal”

In real life, most people I speak to seem so positive about a vaccine.
Everyone I speak to understands it will take take to roll out to everyone and accepts this, but believes the vaccine approval will happen and fairly soon.

What makes a lot of people on here feel the opposite way?

Pessimists? Or anti vaxer?

OP posts:
JosephineDeBeauharnais · 27/10/2020 11:29

Assuming a Safe, effective vaccine or vaccines are found, the problem is mainly one of persuading people to have it. There are the hard core anti vaxxers coupled with the anti flu vaxxers - people who have childhood vax and holiday vax but won’t have the flu jab and won’t have a Covid vax when it’s available. I reckon these will be such substantial numbers that we won’t get the widespread immunity that we need.

FWIW, I’m in the Novavax trial and I don’t believe we’ll have a vaccine in general use for at least another year. I think that the world will divide over this - certain countries eg NZ, Aus and the like will make vax status a condition of entry. Some workplaces will make it a condition of contract, yet HCPs in the NHS will be free to go about their direct patient contact unvaccinated as they do now with flu...

rubbishatballet · 27/10/2020 11:33

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yeah! When the media get hold of "government planning NHS vaccination for Christmas" they make it sound imminent.

All it actually means is that a government department has been charged with puting an NHS vaccination plan in place by Christmas... so that when more is known about possibilities, timescales, etc the plan can be tweaked and be ready to go as and when.

It's good practice. It's common sense. It needs to be done. But it doesn't mean vaccination is happening at Christmas!

This is not quite right. I am sighted on the elements of the mass vaccination programme plans which sit with our Trust and it is all with a view to imminent approval/rollout. Original instructions from NHS England were that the programme could start as early mid October and whilst obviously that did not happen (which no one was surprised by), the pressure is still very much on to get everything sorted very quickly.

I suspect they have been poised on the brink for a little while, and are now inching to the line - particularly as people like Patrick Vallance and Jonathan Van Tam have started referencing it in far more certain terms than they ever have before.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/10/2020 11:34

FWIW, I’m in the Novavax trial and I don’t believe we’ll have a vaccine in general use for at least another year. I'm not, underlying issues, but a friend is, and she says the same.

Sadly she posted on Faceboob about being in the Novichok trial, which threw us a bit Smile

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/10/2020 11:36

@rubbishatballet I was trying to say precisely what you posted!

It's there, ready to go, just needs some last minute bits to fall into place. I know it's been there a while, as you said.

And that this is perfectly normal practice for many agencies - but is NOT what the media keep trying to twist it into!

rubbishatballet · 27/10/2020 11:41

CuriousaboutSamphire, apologies if I misunderstood your post, but to clarify mine, the presumption at work is very much that some people will be vaccinated by Christmas.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/10/2020 11:42

Why does being in the Novavax trial give you extra insight into what is likely to happen with the other vaccines that are further on?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/10/2020 11:46

@rubbishatballet

CuriousaboutSamphire, apologies if I misunderstood your post, but to clarify mine, the presumption at work is very much that some people will be vaccinated by Christmas.
Ach! Don't apologise, there was a lot to be misunderstood in my badly worded post!

I was trying to say that what you explained, I know the assumption, neighbiurs and friends are NHS staff in line for it as soon as it comes in.

I was also, hamfistedly, trying to explain that such stuff happens all the time. That plans are put in place for If/Whens all the time and that the date of the plan completion is not always the same as the time of the action! But there are too many 'times' in that Smile

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/10/2020 11:48

Re the antivaxxers, my suspicion is that as people are quite sheeplike a large number of people who are reluctant now will have changed their mind by the time it actually gets to them. Tv news footage of people queuing up and later on hugging family members again will make it all feel less scary and more worthwhile than in the abstract. Of course there will still be hardcore antivaxxers but they will be a minority compared to the people who are simply having an understandable aversion to a new jab offered by a government they don’t trust.

vidalbaboon · 27/10/2020 11:48

Isn't the virus mutating?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/10/2020 11:49

Much more slowly than flu. Not enough to cause problems for vaccine development.

LearnedResponse · 27/10/2020 11:53

Viruses always mutate, but this one seems more than usually stable - and not all mutations will affect the effectiveness of any given vaccine.

vidalbaboon · 27/10/2020 11:54

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Much more slowly than flu. Not enough to cause problems for vaccine development.
That is reassuring!
vidalbaboon · 27/10/2020 11:55

@LearnedResponse

Viruses always mutate, but this one seems more than usually stable - and not all mutations will affect the effectiveness of any given vaccine.
I am glad to hear that - especially since I am in the shielding categorySmile
110APiccadilly · 27/10/2020 11:58

There will be a vaccine. It'll probably be a bit rubbish in terms of protection offered, but it will give the government the ability to say, "Job done." At that point the media interest will die down, PHE will stop reporting daily figures, and the government will never have to admit that overall the restrictions only extended a few people's lives very slightly if at all compared to the Swedish model. That's my bet. In five years' time people will be able to do proper analysis of the impacts of different policies (because delayed effects of lockdown will be much clearer by then) but no one will listen to that.

JosephineDeBeauharnais · 27/10/2020 13:57

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Why does being in the Novavax trial give you extra insight into what is likely to happen with the other vaccines that are further on?
It doesn’t. I didn’t say it does. I’m pointing out that I’m in the trial to demonstrate that I believe in vaccines, I’m not a naysayer, I just think it’s further off than is being suggested in some places.
jessstan1 · 27/10/2020 13:59

I haven't noticed pessimism about vaccination on here but I do think people are fed up with the wait, especially in view of the conflicting information we are receiving bout it.

To be honest, I have never given it a thought; when it is available I will.

Sunshinegirl82 · 27/10/2020 13:59

What frustrates me is that you see the same posters making the same incorrect points over and over again.

The "natural immunity is the limit of vaccine created immunity" point has come up repeatedly and been responded to repeatedly. The same with "it's been rushed through", "it will take years to vaccinate everyone", it will only be 50% effective", "it might stop people getting really ill but it won't stop transmission" etc etc etc

Even when posters are referred to interviews or papers from the the scientists actually producing the vaccines demonstrating why their point is misconceived you just see the same point made again on a different thread, it's bizarre.

@GoldenOmber I completely agree about the lack of clarity about what is meant by "having a vaccine". We could have a vaccine in December 2020 but also not have a vaccine until Summer 2021 if in the former instance you are talking about having a vaccine approved for emergency use in certain groups and the latter about widespread vaccination of low risk adults. It's incredibly annoying!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 27/10/2020 14:04

Fed up with the wait? !!!!

Is that something else the media is adding to? This will be the fastest a vaccine has been developed, new procedures are being developed to reduce the administration time, ethics are being revisited to marginally change consent etc. People, real live human beings, are agreeing to take on that additional risk in order to help ... and someone is bored waiting?!

FFS!

ivftake1 · 27/10/2020 14:08

Because this?

www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873

Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection'

Sunshinegirl82 · 27/10/2020 14:27

Case in point!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/10/2020 14:30

Apologies, JosephineDeBeauharnais, I misunderstood what you were implying. My fault.

GoldenOmber · 27/10/2020 17:22

Sadly she posted on Faceboob about being in the Novichok trial, which threw us a bit

Grin well the good news is, the covid won’t kill you...

tobee · 27/10/2020 18:01

@ivftake1

Because this?

www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873

Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection'

Antibodies from having the virus are not the same as from having a vaccine.

Unfortunately, op, having a thread title like this is just a magnet for the doom merchants on here. Those that say they are realists. Like the rest of us are clowns and idiots who can't read. Hmm

PowerslidePanda · 27/10/2020 18:08

Case in point!

Grin
PowerslidePanda · 27/10/2020 18:11

Unfortunately, op, having a thread title like this is just a magnet for the doom merchants on here. Those that say they are realists. Like the rest of us are clowns and idiots who can't read

This is an eye-opening thread! I thought optimism vs pessimism were different viewpoints, but apparently opinions are nothing to do with it - the optimists are simply wrong (and too stupid to know it)