Neil Ferguson saying schools may close

[Orangeblossom7777]

On the BBC - older ones he says. Will they listen to him though now he got kicked off Sage? I thought the plan for for part time in secondary not closing if cases rose very high? Hoping this doesn't happen DC mid GCSEs and already missed loads.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558

But he said beyond that there was a "limit to what we can do" without sending some school year groups home. and they government do not want to close schools,
is more what he said.
and the government are not fully following scientific advice.
they talk about locking down, the government does not such thing until it is too late.

@Cattermole

There are numerous threads now and yes some of them are both angry and patronising in tone.

Towards teachers, you mean? I'm still trying to get my head round why anyone wouldn't want better protection for children and staff in schools. It doesn't click with many people until you see your own children and area affected, so reading posts about how you're ok and you don't know why anyone is making a fuss does grate, yes, when your own children have to isolate.

I’m not talking about online learning. I’m talking about parents saying ‘my child had one worksheet a week’ and being flamed by teachers accusing her of teacher bashing. It was a weekly theme at one point.

barbie I’ve already said I think the U4T lot are as selfish as can be. I don’t think either ‘side’ is emerging looking particularly great at the moment.

What a lot of teachers on here insist is they worked harder than ever over lockdown, their school went over and above, and because of this the inference is parents who say otherwise are clearly lying hmm

Some teachers did work harder than ever over lockdown. (No need to “insist”, surely?) Some teachers did much less. Both can be true. Schools’ circumstances and policies varied.

I’m not talking about online learning. I’m talking about parents saying ‘my child had one worksheet a week’ and being flamed by teachers accusing her of teacher bashing. It was a weekly theme at one point

Ok fair enough. But this thread really isn’t about the lack of lockdown learning (in some schools) over summer.
It’s actually quite upsetting to admit to being scared at work. And then you are told teachers sound angry and aggressive.

Some teens unfortunately don't have online learning resources at home. Given that GCSE and A level exams are planned for next summer, it would be a very unfair unlevel playing field.

Maybe years 7,8 and 9 could work from home, but not those in higher years. It wouldn't be fair to those disadvantaged.

Some do sound angry and aggressive whenshewasbad, I’m just being totally truthful here. Not you. But some do.

even if you do provide online lessons kids don’t always turn up.

No, my children wouldn't have, because there's not enough devices for us all, and I'm a teacher. This is why the kind of online learning you are provided needs to be the kind which works for the majority in your school community, and just because you're not getting the same thing as the school down the road, it doesn't mean your school did "nothing" or you had "no online learning".

When the comments about "no online learning" are unpicked, 99% of the time what the poster meant was, there wasn't a teacher sitting ready and waiting behind a screen prompting their child to complete the work 1:1 like Mary Poppins, and instead the children had work, videos and explanations to go through themselves, because that's what worked for the majority and that's what resulted in the most children making most progress.

I can't honestly see the problem with this at primary, and I can't think of a way in which live teaching from a screen all day is acceptable in any primary year, and I think it's a lot to expect from secondary children too.

Here we are, I haven’t mentioned online learning.

I don’t want it, I don’t think it works. But I do believe parents who say what their child was given wasn’t enough.

I started a whole thread about patchy lockdown provision, and how it was terrible and parents were right to be furious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3941702-Annoyed-your-kid-isn-t-having-zoom-lessons-or-school-contact-or-not-going-back-to-school-yet

It only got 53 posts and none from the people who regularly turn up on threads complaining about lockdown provision. Probably my least successful thread ever.

I suspect it's because they would prefer to come on threads and blame teachers for being lazy than discuss how inadequate education provision really is an issue, including outside lockdown, and the government incompetence in dealing with this.

Perhaps they could simply enforce the existing rules first. At the shops yesterday the only people breaking the mask rule were teenagers who wore them in their chins, and big groups 10+ too. Security guards didn't even approach despite a lady complaining to them. Perhaps under a certain age can only shop with a parent/guardian?

I think you’re revealing your own prejudices there giraffe in that case.

Some do sound angry and aggressive whenshewasbad, I’m just being totally truthful here. Not you. But some do

Thanks murkoff, this is a thread about possibly closing or partially closing schools in the future. Going over arguments that happened on mumsnet over early summer isn’t hugely helpful.

@murkoff

I think you’re revealing your own prejudices there giraffe in that case.

If you don't think that there has been a co-ordinated and deliberate campaign against teachers on MN during lockdown then you really haven't been paying attention.

Actually giraffe that’s a bit misleading isn’t it?

Here’s what you actually said:

Some kids are having zoom lessons (parking to one side whether this is the gold standard) and they have the tech to access this

Some kids are having weekly phone contact

Some kids are having differentiated work set remotely

Some kids are having paper work packs hand delivered

Some kids are having a few links sent out at the start of the week

Some kids are getting feedback

Some kids are getting no feedback

Some kids are back in school

Some kids aren’t back in school

Some kids aren’t allowed back in school even though they are in a year group that should be back in school

Some year groups are prioritised

Some year groups have been effectively abandoned

Some kids are vulnerable and not getting the support they need

Some kids have SEN and are not getting the support they need.

It’s terrible that education provision is so patchy. That some pupils are getting far more input and support than others. Parents are right to be furious if theirs is one of the have-nots. They have the right to look at what other kids are getting and be worried that their kid is missing out.

But

This is not unique to lockdown. Do not think, for one second, that things will be fair when kids return to school. Do not think, for one second, that things were fair before lockdown. Underfunding, lack of resources, lack of qualified staff affecting quality of education (despite schools’ and teachers’ best efforts) have been an issue for years.

Some kids had qualified teachers. Some kids had a string of unqualified supply teachers. Some kids were in well-resourced brand new school buildings. Some were in dilapidated pre-fab huts. Some had excellent pastoral support. Some had none. Some had access to opportunities. Some had very little in the way of extras.

And on top of it all, the DfE are a useless bunch who have lied that everything is fine while the system slowly crashes to the ground, desperately propped up by the hard work of the increasingly fewer numbers of dedicated staff who haven’t yet burned out.

This inequality is clearly unacceptable, however it may not have been clear to parents up till now just how bad things are. They may have laboured under the illusion that their children were not affected.

How has it come to this? Gove’s academisation program, making schools into independent private concerns, pitting them against each other instead of encouraging collaboration. League tables. Ofsted ratings. The illusion of parental choice. The mass exodus of teaching staff. Every school has been expected to do its own thing, and now they are doing their own thing, we cannot do what other countries have done and centralise education efforts. Because of lack of funding and central control, the government cannot mandate that schools do anything in a uniform fashion. How can they say children should have video lessons when the tech isn’t there? How can they say that children should make use of centralised lessons from Oak Academy when every school is following their own curriculum?

If you are frustrated regarding the DfE’s announcements of primary kids going back, not going back, Y10 and 12 going back but actually not going back to lessons although some are - they are ALWAYS this incompetent. You’re only now seeing it, but apply that to the last ten years and you might get some idea of the scale of frustration of people who work in education.

If you are pissed off now, you should be. Maintain that anger when schools are back. They need your support because they are struggling in a broken system. Direct it to the right place.

This wasn’t a supportive thread about helping parents, it was another one complaining about education.

People stop engaging because what can you say that hasn’t been said dozens of times before?

Thanks for reposting my excellent OP, murkoff, I hope it makes a few people think.

Personally I’d prefer to be able to get on with all aspects of my life. Personally I’d like to go to work, go on holiday, have weekends away, visit my family etc etc and just forget about Covid. I do feel bitter that all the nice things I do have been stopped, but the riskiest thing I do (teach) is the one thing I’m expected to continue. But I’d happily continue it if I could do everything else too.

But, I’ve said it before I’ll say it again. Teachers are in higher risk areas are beginning to take matters into their own hands, because the government won’t. I have 11 teacher colleagues off on stress leave right now. And they are staying off.
My husband has 5 teacher colleagues on stress leave and a couple more who are off with other things.

Parents arguing that they can’t leave their year 7/8 children all day and need school for childcare need to have a back-up plan anyway, because at this rate (in my school certainly) we won’t be closing due to government instruction...but we will be closing due to teacher shortage.

I'm pasting the key paragraph from @noble's linked thread here as I'd just like to agree very strongly with it, lest anyone else feels it's just her prejudices coming through.

If you are frustrated regarding the DfE’s announcements of primary kids going back, not going back, Y10 and 12 going back but actually not going back to lessons although some are - they are ALWAYS this incompetent. You’re only now seeing it, but apply that to the last ten years and you might get some idea of the scale of frustration of people who work in education.

Well that’s it then! I stand corrected if you say that then. I can guarantee that I know more teachers than you and more than half of them are really really scared. Many have underlying conditions, are older or have vulnerable family.

I believe what I see and hear in real life more than some emotional hyperbole on MN. My first-hand experience tells me that the teachers in our community prefer schools to be open for business. They are managing the situation very well and are now extending one class bubbles to whole year bubbles so rather having 30 primary pupils in a bubble, they now have 90.

Clubs are starting up again too, all on the initiative of the head teacher and staff.

I am very supportive of our teachers and in awe of them. Whenever I express my support, they are keen to reassure that they are so happy to be teaching the children. Maybe it depends on the area, we're South East.

Yes there’s your MO giraffe.

Someone has disagreed with you and you adopt that pompous and self righteous tone. They haven’t been paying attention or are stupid or fools.

I am not any of the above. I think there has been some pressure from that awful U4T group. However I think some of you have become so finely tuned to it that you leap on any query about schools or teachers as ‘teacher bashing.’

If I were MNHQ I would be dealing with it. It’s disruptive and disrespectful. Parents have the right to ask questions without being flamed.

I’m not going to spend the day being blasted by you, I will leave this with my final sentence - I think both ‘sides’ are as bad as the other. And if YOU can’t see how some teachers are coming across then YOU haven’t been paying attention.

And if YOU can’t see how some teachers are coming across then YOU haven’t been paying attention

I'm not responsible for what other people post, however when people on THIS thread talk shit about ME (and it's definitely me that they mean because they come on my own threads and say the same things) then I don't see why I shouldn't respond.

Whenever I express my support, they are keen to reassure that they are so happy to be teaching the children.

Every week we have to call the parents of the children in our form classes. Every week I tell parents how great things are; how settled the class is; how safe we all feel at school and how much I am enjoying being back with their children.

I don’t mean a single word of it.

Someone has disagreed with you and you adopt that pompous and self righteous tone.

I agree with this. @noblegiraffe claimed that I was lying, which is very rude and, ironically, untrue. Thankfully MN deleted her post .

I don’t mean a single word of it.

Then you shouldn't be saying it, regardless of what the powers that be say.