Belgium’s ex prime minister in intensive care at age 45

[Chickenandrice]

Just highlights how it can effect even the younger population

People getting upset because they can’t handle the truth. I know two people in their 20s who were extremely ill, one hospitalised. This disease is serious.

@xtinak

Perhaps it's worth pointing out that not everyone who dies of covid will pass through an ICU. Younger people may be better candidates for treatment.

Yes, good point, that's also a factor hence the low numbers of people in the 80 and over group.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Yep - 99,9% chance of survival

So, pretty good odds

18% of under 50s die if they end up in the ICU — prior to Sep 1. Since then it’s tracking at about 10%. Which is an excellent improvement or perhaps just a sign of a less overwhelmed healthcare system.

@Chickenqueen

People getting upset because they can’t handle the truth. I know two people in their 20s who were extremely ill, one hospitalised. This disease is serious.

Exactly this.

She's 45? Gulp. In their 20s?! It doesn't happen, it won't happen to me, that can't be true, stats please, link please, oh, they must have been obese, had underlying conditions, even after ICU they are fiiiiine!

The Brazilian who died (of Covid) in the Oxford vaccine trial recently was just 28 too. They received the placebo. Tragically they might well be still here if they’d got the vaccine.

It's no surprise.
Worldwide data including reports from our own SAGE group show that the risk of death increases from 45. Which is why it's surprising (and concerning) that the UK government has widened access to the flu jab to over 50s rather than starting at 45.

Those saying younger patients in ICU have more chance of survival. They don't if we fail to contain Covid and consequently hospital beds fill up and doctors and nurses (and other HCP) are off sick.

And death is not the only risk. Possibly more concerning is the risk of the long-term disability of Long Covid. So far linked to heart, lung, and kidney damage, triggering type 1 diabetes, and blood clotting issues. That's in many patients who initially had mild non hospitalisation cases.

And, who knows how many other people might have hidden damage that will only come to light several years later.

Oh - and one thing's crystal clear.

We need to tell our children to eat lots of cake and then start smoking when they reach adulthood. Great stress relief, and it boosts the tax coffers by billions.

It might shorten life expectancy - but that's ok because apparently 82 year olds don't matter and are ready to die.

Of course we all know that most people who die of Covid-19 are older. However, even if the under 65s comprise a smaller percentage of the total deaths, we can't just dismiss it as something that affects hardly anyone. This is from the ONS:

The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (47,905 out of 53,640).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundupdeathsandhealth/2020-06-26#deaths, dated 20 October.

Given average life expectancy, Covid-19 deaths must make up a higher proportion of excess deaths among those under 65 than in the over 65 group.

Besides, to Sophie Wilmes' family and friends, she is not just a statistical outlier. Most of us felt very shocked when Boris Johnson was admitted to intensive care at St Thomas's. Have we become so immune to news about coronavirus, that this is seen as nothing special and it is assumed she will recover swiftly and completely?

Thanks for the source.

The polarised nature of this debate is very frustrating, however.

I do find some people who caution against alarmism and panic find themselves accused of not caring about older people's lives and/or of denial that this can affect younger people severely. Which it clearly can. As do other viruses (at a potentially lower rate - I am not at all interested in minimising the impact of Covid in any age group). It is entirely possible to keep the risks in proportion while being aware of them and doing everything one can to minimise them, which includes taking responsibility for personal health as far as it is possible. How is anyone, on an individual or societal level, actually helped by the spread of terror and panic? I'm as frustrated as anyone at the lax behaviour I see around me wrt masks, distancing etc. I find the figures very concerning. But we should try and keep our heads.

I'm wondering whether a seat belt analogy helps. If I don't bother wearing a seat belt, I know I am at serious risk of horrific injuries if I have an accident. So I wear one. I'm still at risk of horrific injuries if I have an accident and it's bad enough, but the risk is very much reduced. So while I wouldn't drive or get into a car without seat belts fitted, the risk is reduced enough for me to be happy driving a car with seat belts fitted, driving with due care and attention, not speeding or cutting others up etc, and I wouldn't appreciate being told to never get in my car again or I and others will absolutely die.

(In case it's not obvious, seat belts, due care and attention etc stand for Covid precautions - limiting indoor meetings with others as far as possible, wearing masks (properly!), distancing, hand hygiene, ventilation. Even with all these things in place, the risk is obviously not zero. But I do have a sense that in this debate the only two possible options seem to be zero risk and total risk)

This is not new. We had reports from March - from France - that the median age of those admitted to ICU was 55-60 (hospital capacity was decreasing, and the older you were, the less likely to be admitted as your chance of survival was deemed lower - especially with invasive ventilation).

It’s always been the hospitalization rates for the working age population that have concerned me, rather than death rates. Although it stands to reason that if you can’t get prompt hospital treatment, your chances of survival decrease.

My 43 year old cousin passed away from covid a few weeks ago, no unknown underlying condition. It was in a Middle Eastern country. He was admitted to hospital, but too late. It’s horrible to think that he would survived in a better healthcare system.

Always important to remember:

• this will be a one-off
• only very old people die from covid usually
• or people who are very overweight or already ill
• the numbers are lower/higher/better reported than earlier in the year so the statistics are meaningless
• so long as you don't die, a stint in ICU is nothing to worry about and in fact is a sort of extended hotel stay
• the only two outcomes from catching covid are death or fully recovered with no lasting problems

The fact that half the covid deaths in India were people

Coronavirus can be nasty, even fatal for younger people. We need perspective though, one more case of a younger person in ICU doesn’t ‘prove’ any point. It’s statistically a lot less fatal/less likely to be hospitalised if you are in the younger age group. To say this, and to be a younger age and take more (reasonable) ‘risks’ in who you see and what you do (within guidelines) doesn’t make you a covidiot.
From travelling tabby website, see graphs:

so long as you don't die, a stint in ICU is nothing to worry about and in fact is a sort of extended hotel stay

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in the debate so far.

Many people who go into ICU suffer long term consequences, both physical and mental.

Many of us are self-employed. Having already used up all of our savings in this pandemic we wouldn't be able to pay our mortgage with a 'stint in the ICU' and the recovery period afterwards.

Again people are taking this back to deaths.

I, for one, am not too concerned about dying even though I'm very overweight (and by the way, discounting people as somehow being relevant because we're overweight is extremely shitty).

I am however definitely concerned about being ill for weeks, being ill enough to go to hospital and/or long COVID.

Most of us that are under 50 and concerned for ourselves are in this group - it's not about dying.

(And of course the concern for our parents who are even more at risk).

Wheresmymojo that’s my worry too

I think the fact that she’s slim, young (ish) and female makes this interesting and concerning. Many of the “young” admitted to ICU have been undeniably overweight.

@PinkPiranha11

I think the fact that she’s slim, young (ish) and female makes this interesting and concerning. Many of the “young” admitted to ICU have been undeniably overweight.

She's what I imagine your typical, defiant mumsnetter looks like.

I did read yesterday that she had been admitted to ICU but was not "serious or critical' she will have been admitted to ICU because of who she is, for monitoring, anyone else would be sent home

The 45-year-old tested positive for Covid-19 last week and had been self-isolating, but her condition worsened and on Wednesday night she was taken to a Brussels hospital.

“She is conscious and she can communicate,” her spokeswoman said, confirming that Wilmès was receiving intensive care.

@Emmie12345

But what percentage of these younger icu patients have underlying conditions such as obesity and diabetes ? A lot I am sure

It doesn't break those stats down by age by 20% have a BMI less than 25 and for co-morbidities 0.9% cardiovascular 1.6% respiratory 1.4% renal 0.5% liver 0.6% metastatic disease 1.8% haematological malignancy 4.2% immunocompromise There is no mention of diabetes at all.

Is it possible that many older people will not be candidates for ITU which would mean the average age of those in ITU is lower? I expect (but don't know) that the average age of those hospitalised would be considerably higher.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Elke Pattyn added that the 45-year-old's condition was "not worrying".

*The fact that half the covid deaths in India were people