Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

[noblegiraffe]

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

Around 50% of children are thought to be asymptomatic. We'd know because all of the parents would be unwell en masse. You wouldn’t know unless you knew all the parents of the school and had a good timeline of cases and connected all the dots. Or you might know because the school had closed a whole year group. And even then, it has often then been reported that some ‘individual households’ not connected had it.

My brother caught covid and he is 53. Despite my elderly mother being in the house and stroking his forhead when being carted off by the amublance and considering he was living with her, giving her her medication etc why did she not catch it? She is vunerable, in her 80's and diabetic? Why didnt i catch it. I was at my mums house a few days before. Why didnt i catch it. I had a drink. My brother gave me it. Why did my other brother not catch it. He was there to phone the ambulance. Its a weird virus that spreads to some, not others. To me, its a bit like a cold. Some get it, some dont. I had a cold when i went back to school. Not one person in my family caught it!

[quote Ecosse]@mrshoho

Masks are an impediment to learning and communication. They should be worn in the corridors but certainly not in lessons imo.

What should be happening in all schools is all windows remaining open at all times. Too many teachers are closing windows in their rooms. Personally I’d issue fines to those caught closing windows.

Ventilation is far more important than mask wearing.[/quote]
Well, let's thank the good Lord that @Ecosse is not in charge of anything!
Interested to know (or perhaps I mean I'm amused), just how you would police this?

What are the options though?

I'm speaking as a parent to a child in year 13.

Are you expecting an entire year group to have their education compromised in the most important year of their schooling?

Last years "year 13" and "year 11" suffered horribly with regards to cancellation of exams and the stress of the results fiasco.

You want this years cohort of 11/13 to suffer even more badly?

They'll lose out on masses of teaching time and the state sector will suffer in comparison to private schools due to funding of online facilities.

You're talking about sacrificing the future of a huge number of children who aren't at great risk from Covid (but will be expected to finance the nations debt for paying for it) for older generations who arguably have had the benefit of greater opportunities and an economic environment that has allowed them/us to own property and have a lifestyle that I can't possibly see how this generation can replicate.

Of course keeping schools open is a risk, but compared to pubs/gyms/restaurants etc it's absolutely imho a priority.

@Fortherosesjoni70 I agree that it's strange. I know of people I work with or in the school bubble who have had it but it doesn't pass to others. Another person I know caught it in a pub but no one else from the group got it.

Re the suggestion that presenting this government data for discussion is scaremongering:

That suggests that the data looks scary, doesn't it?

In which case where are the briefings with JVT discussing it and why it isn't a cause for concern? Why hasn't it been released till half term? Why has the data that they have presented been fudged on the issues of schools?

Why have they acknowledged that schools are no longer considered 'not a high risk' by issuing new guidance about ventilation and removing the phrase 'not a high risk' on the quiet and not made any public statement? Where is the transparency?

Where. The Fuck. Is Gav?

Private schools are doing their own in-house testing. Especially boarding schools. Including asymptomatic pupils. I wonder if we will ever get access to this data, as it might be quite interesting.

Ecosse you seem really panicked by the whole school thing. Either that or you are a government minister trying to boss your way out of a pandemic. Either way, this is not going to work. Schools are going to close, at least partially. It's just a case of when - and whether it's soon enough.

You want this years cohort of 11/13 to suffer even more badly?

I've not argued for schools to close. I have argued for improved mitigation measures. There are lots of options before closing schools.

But we can't even start to have that conversation properly while the government continues to pretend it's not an issue.

Incidentally, lots of Y11s and Y13s are currently suffering because they are off school isolating. Some of them are in and out like they're on elastic. The effect on their education isn't being discussed either.

Find it... enlightening that when they wanted to push the 'back to school' message, you couldn't shut any of them up.

Now it's obvious that school isn't as low risk as they said, they've all gone radio silence & it's not got anywhere near the amount of press coverage as those fake lovely socially distanced classrooms and the PM set up visits to schools did.

[quote Ecosse]@PracticingPerson

Lockdown is also a magic bullet in causing poverty and job losses.[/quote]
Increasing rates of covid also causes poverty and job losses.

Those who oppose lockdown never say how it will benefit the economy to allow rates to rise.

There are three options:

A) let covid run
B) aggressively tackle it
C) carry on in half way house

A fucks the economy plus loads of deaths, B fucks the economy with few deaths, C fucks the economy slowly with medium deaths.

@DeRigueurMortis for me the most important thing is not to ignore the transmission within the schools. ONLY then can we have a sensible discussion about them, in which all your points are very valid. However at the moment schools are being seen as magic places where transmission rarely happens, so all decisions flow from that.

I do appreciate the importance of education, for so so many reasons. For me it is not that schools should just all be closed all year.

However I do think they have high risk potential for spread. If we manage that better, including letting some children home, better safety - then surely community rates will lower and that benefits everyone including schools?

@noblegiraffe personally it doesn't scare me whatsoever.

Children were mostly locked away until the Summer holidays, when they were afforded a few activities. Now they're out and about there are bound to be cases. There is Covid in the community so there will be children with Covid.

It doesn't scare me in the slightest.

Well i sat and watch NIcola Sturgeon and at least she is saying that they may have to go on to blended learning. However I really do think it will be when everything else has been exhausted. She really believes that the measures in schools are working The only reason they are working where I teach is because its not come into the school yet. That's it. I am really so anxious about it but I just have to get on with it despite having a huge class of children who clear have no concept of SD. No masks worn. Windows open but still pretty shit ventillation.

[quote Ecosse]@mrshoho

Masks are an impediment to learning and communication. They should be worn in the corridors but certainly not in lessons imo.

What should be happening in all schools is all windows remaining open at all times. Too many teachers are closing windows in their rooms. Personally I’d issue fines to those caught closing windows.

Ventilation is far more important than mask wearing.[/quote]
Some schools don't have windows that open. My dc's school is a modern new building with artificial ventilation that no one seems to know whether it will reduce or speed up transmission. My other child is in an ancient building with painted shut windows in one half of the school.

My SEN school I work in has lovely big windows and every room has doors opening to the outside so lots of free flowing air in and out. We all wear layers and it's great.

It doesn't scare me in the slightest.

Awesome. Let's cancel all lockdowns, bin all masks, dance in the streets because Autumn doesn't think covid is scary.

In the meantime, the rest of the world are taking it seriously.

@DeRigueurMortis of course it's going to be shitty for any exam year groups last year and this year, really shitty and we really feel for the students in those groups. Speaking as a teacher who has had GCSE students not talk to me/bitch about me as I dared to go off and have a baby during their GCSE year, there are always exam years as a teacher. If it wasn't your DC it would be somebody else's and it is a crap situation for all but if schools can be made safer for all that would be better for continuity of provision and community transmission too,

[quote Autumnleavestime]@noblegiraffe personally it doesn't scare me whatsoever.

Children were mostly locked away until the Summer holidays, when they were afforded a few activities. Now they're out and about there are bound to be cases. There is Covid in the community so there will be children with Covid.

It doesn't scare me in the slightest.[/quote]
This suggests you don't understand that the threat to most people from Covid isn't the direct immediate health risk, but the risk of too many cases impacting wider health care and other services.

If that risk doesn't scare you, you don't understand what is potentially going to happen to our health system this winter.

You want this years cohort of 11/13 to suffer even more badly?

They'll lose out on masses of teaching time and the state sector will suffer in comparison to private schools due to funding of online facilities

Meanwhile my y11 dd is on her second lot of isolation so another month out of school this term.

@noblegiraffe

COVID is not scary for the vast majority. I absolutely agree that vulnerable DC and staff should not be in school.

@Shitfuckoh

Find it... enlightening that when they wanted to push the 'back to school' message, you couldn't shut any of them up.

Now it's obvious that school isn't as low risk as they said, they've all gone radio silence & it's not got anywhere near the amount of press coverage as those fake lovely socially distanced classrooms and the PM set up visits to schools did.

Absolutely. I find it absolutely disgusting and frustrating. No-one gives a shit about teachers. That is the truth.

@Autumnleavestime however it is becoming clearer that covid rates in children in schools are not just ‘reflecting’ what is already happening, and are going to school. They are contributing to the spread and it may be significant.

Why is that important? Several reasons:

• we will be in constant lockdown/overwhelm for months if we don’t get a handle on all situations with a high potential for spread. Businesses will suffer, people will suffer because of schools.
• it is possible to make schools much safer. But we are not. Why? Because everyone is just thinking that they don’t contribute to the spread so why bother.
• children’s education itself is being really disrupted.

[quote Ecosse]@noblegiraffe

COVID is not scary for the vast majority. I absolutely agree that vulnerable DC and staff should not be in school.[/quote]
They are statistics. Not reality. You may survive it but you may not be the person that you once were.

The vunerable are at heightened risk but so are other teachers over 50 but in reality we are told everyone can suffer from it. Or is that another Government lie?

Where. The Fuck. Is Gav?

This with bells on , paid for what ???