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Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

671 replies

noblegiraffe · 22/10/2020 20:03

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data
Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data
OP posts:
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17
MrsFezziwig · 24/10/2020 12:20

Just read an interesting article from the Independent (flagged up on the BBC website) which says that public health officials have linked some local outbreaks to parents mingling at the school gates, often without face coverings. I’ve seen this myself, as I’m sure a lot of people have. An entirely preventable situation.

If this was addressed, as well as all possible mitigation measures in schools, we likely would have reduced infections and consequently less damage to other sectors. I absolutely think the schools should be open, but the government needs to admit there’s a problem.

sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 12:22

I just looked into it a bit more.

There's actually a flip side to this, that a number of deaths described as 'Covid deaths' were not actually caused by Covid. These deaths would have been caused by other causes, they just tested positive for Covid within a certain number of days beforehand.

While we found that roughly one in thirteen (7.8%) deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate did not have the disease as the underlying cause of death, this proportion has risen substantially to 29% (nearly a third) for the last eight weeks of reporting.

Piggywaspushed · 24/10/2020 12:32

I think you will find that figure changing as the pandemic grows again and hospitals begin to struggle.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 12:33

Then you still need to explain why the entire world is taking this so seriously, sunflower.

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noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 12:40

More from Germany:

"The German government is investing €500m (£452m; $488m) in improving ventilation systems in public buildings to help stop the spread of coronavirus.
The grants will go to improve the air circulation in public offices, museums, theatres, universities and schools.
...

The government also wants schools lacking central air conditioning systems to at least get mobile air purifiers. But much will also depend on how easily rooms can be ventilated simply by opening the windows."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54599593

UK government? Snuck out guidance telling schools to open the windows without any sort of advertising campaign to highlight its importance or money to fix issues.

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sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 12:44

I am taking it seriously. I avoid unnecessary social contacts, I only go shopping for necessities wearing a face mask etc.

I do feel that it's important that we keep the economy going and keep the young generation in education. It's a balance, but I fear that we might regret our decisions in the future if we focus too much on the virus now. For the majority of people Covid is no problem. And as a society we need to decide what's in the overall national interest.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 12:49

I am taking it seriously. I avoid unnecessary social contacts, I only go shopping for necessities wearing a face mask etc.

Well fucking hurrah for you.

I, on the other hand, am being shoved into poorly ventilated small spaces with large groups of teens where I can't social distance and no one is wearing a mask.

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sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 12:50

Yes, the UK government should have done a lot differently! Like invest in the NHS, in schools, in public services etc for the past 30 year.

noblegiraffe · 24/10/2020 12:53

Why are you using the past tense, sunflowers as if they couldn't be doing a lot differently right now?

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sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 12:54

Well, if there is any money left (given National debt is already higher than GDP) they certainly should!

Piggywaspushed · 24/10/2020 12:55

An advanced search was instructive.

christinarossetti19 · 24/10/2020 14:01

sunflowers246 have you been following the information about the millions that the govt have wasted on useless PPE contracts, inept track and trace programmes etc?

And do you know even the basics of economics, about quantative easing etc?

I guess not, or you wouldn't be using such ridiculous terms as 'if there's any money left'.

There are some measures that can be introduced immediately. Mandatory mask wearing, schools to undertake their own risk assessments depending on their own staff/student populations and the building they are in about whether some learning should be provided at home as a planned way, rather than reacting to school closures or SI, compulsory opening of windows and encouraging everyone to wrap up, not using rooms without ventilation or rooms where people can't socially distance (see point two above).

This was the bare minimum that should have been done over the summer when there was less fire fighting and more time.

Investment in extra cleaning staff and products (schools can receive a pittance from the govt if there has already been an outbreak in their establishment, which I don't need to spell out the utter stupidity of I hope), giving schools funds to enable them to increase provision of staff/space or both.

That won't happen under this shower of a government of course, but the teachers on this thread are absolutely right that lots could have been implemented from September onwards which would also certainly have lessened the impact of the virus on children, teachers and other staff these last two months and going into winter.

Sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 15:29

And do you know even the basics of economics, about quantative easing etc?

I actually studied economics Smile.

Total Government debt hit £2.004tn in July, higher than GDP!

You mention quantitative easing. How is the Bank of England's quantitative easing going to help with the increasing debt the UK is generating?

Fredchicken · 24/10/2020 15:55

@christinarossetti19 you claim to know a lot about economics. In what way would quantitative easing reduce government debt? The UK has a massive debt problem that will have to be repaid with higher taxes over many years.

Piggywaspushed · 24/10/2020 16:20

I love these threads : count how many posts until we get to a complete sidetrack.

Sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 16:26

True Grin

But it was only after my comment about government debt and the lack of funds for extra spending that @christinarossetti19 questioned my understanding of economics! In addition she questioned my understanding of quantitative easing...!

Interesting that she's not responding any more.

christinarossetti19 · 24/10/2020 17:45

Um, I've been busy...

You studied economics and come out with things like 'if there's enough money left'?

What does that actually mean? Sorry, yes a derail but austerity and the systematic underfunding of schools has been and is ideological. It has nothing to do with there 'not being enough money'.

The UK has a 'massive debt problem'that could be managed better by not pissing away millions giving Tory donors lucrative contracts and better use of reserves and bonds, just for a start.

The examples that I and others have given for how the risk within schools could be properly mitigated would have costed nothing. Giving schools the authority to manage their own resources appropriate to their individual population, buildings etc would have cost the govt nothing, other than having to acknowledge that school leaders know a lot more about education than they do, which they wouldn't do in a million years.

If this had happened, schools would have had the time to plan proper blended learning/part-time schooling if that would have been the best balance between providing an education and keeping people safe.

Not insisting that schools need to be open full-time to all pupils, which clearly hasn't worked, as nearly half a million weren't in school last week.

christinarossetti19 · 24/10/2020 17:46

@Piggywaspushed

An advanced search was instructive.
How so?
Piggywaspushed · 24/10/2020 17:58

It is always interested to see what threads some posters tend to head towards, christina...

Sunflowers246 · 24/10/2020 18:02

The examples that I and others have given for how the risk within schools could be properly mitigated would have costed nothing. Giving schools the authority to manage their own resources appropriate to their individual population, buildings etc would have cost the govt nothing, other than having to acknowledge that school leaders know a lot more about education than they do, which they wouldn't do in a million years.

I agree with all that 100%.

I was referring to the additional spending for new Ventilation systems and air purifiers etc. Sadly I don't think that the Government can afford such investments now, as Government debt has risen so much this year already (furlough scheme etc).

ChristmasCantComeSoonEnough · 24/10/2020 18:03

@sunflowers246

I just looked into it a bit more.

There's actually a flip side to this, that a number of deaths described as 'Covid deaths' were not actually caused by Covid. These deaths would have been caused by other causes, they just tested positive for Covid within a certain number of days beforehand.

While we found that roughly one in thirteen (7.8%) deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate did not have the disease as the underlying cause of death, this proportion has risen substantially to 29% (nearly a third) for the last eight weeks of reporting.

If you look at the excess deaths for this year it is much higher than those being counted in the ‘died within a certain number of days of a positive Covid test’ though. So whilst some deaths counted as Covid have another cause I think we are missing more in the data that have been caused by Covid.
RigaBalsam · 24/10/2020 18:10

[quote Fredchicken]@christinarossetti19 you claim to know a lot about economics. In what way would quantitative easing reduce government debt? The UK has a massive debt problem that will have to be repaid with higher taxes over many years.[/quote]
According to Gary Stevenson on LBC on the other night we will never pay the debt back to the Bank of England. Worth a listen on catch up LBC.

First 20 mins 10pm I think it was Thursday night.
Sorry for the derailment.

Ecosse · 24/10/2020 18:10

@ChristmasCantComeSoonEnough

We know that there are 25,000 deaths linked to health conditions like heart disease of people who were not tested in hospital either because they were frightened by the scaremongering or refused treatment by the NHS.

I suspect there were many more.

christinarossetti19 · 24/10/2020 18:14

Sunflowers246 well, who knows if they could 'afford' it, as nothing like actually pouring resources into schools has been on the table, let alone properly costed.

It's not about whether the govt can afford it or not, it's about ideology and political will.

Fredchicken · 24/10/2020 18:28

Thanks Rigabalsam. I'll have a listen.