Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

[noblegiraffe]

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

@Starlingbird

Heads are not virologists or Health and Safety experts. Heads have responsibility for safety but there’s no extra budget. The government guidelines on safety don’t address aerosol transmission.

Yes. We are spraying and wiping and ventilating like billyoh yet still catching the kids' normal colds.

Mask use in the uk is stupidly low. At least staff should be wearing them to reduce infection of others and offer some low level protection.

Big bubble closed so we will see what happens over the next week.

They're wearing them in France in primary.

I wouldn’t be so quick to say the young aren’t affected. What we mean to say is they seem unaffected by the initial effects of Covid. We have no idea as to the longer term risks of infection.

@Oaktree55 I agree. The paper (which has been picked up by the Daily Mail) makes it clear that the mitigations we are not taking in the uk are vital for safe opening of schools. Shame on you DfE!

My dds are doing blended learning at their sixth form, and it works ok. The school has a complicated timetable, but essentially they have either year 12 or year 13 on site on a given day, never both together. So in a given week one year does 3 days and the other 2. On home days they have live lessons with microsoft teams.

It’s beyond crazy. We’re operating unsafe schools (both for staff and possibly children long term). We’re shutting down huge parts of our economy in the mistaken belief it will control this, with the consequential poverty affecting huge numbers of children across the U.K. in addition this impact on the economy will detrimentally affect school leavers for at least the next 5 years.

Current debt is equivalent to 6p on Basic Rate of tax for the next 3 years and that’s before we get through the winter.

At some point the Government will have to look at the folly of their ways in ignoring the spread in Education. They I assume we’re relying on some sort of medium term immunity but even that is looking questionable so allowing kids to become immune probably won’t work.

It’s just a ridiculous unsustainable approach.

@Oaktree55 Spot on.

There was some thought that younger children actually are less likely to catch coronavirus, because they are lacking the right receptors.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200521104653.htm

That would explain why primary transmission is lower and reassure those who think primary are getting it asymptomatically and spreading it.

Anyone who thinks kids are getting a great education at the moment is kidding themselves.
We are trying our best, we really are, but in a normal year, absence leads to a drop in grades, let alone repeated isolations by kids and teachers. Not only that, kids are increasingly anticipating being sent home at any point. The general vibe is of the last week of Xmas term. Now, this may be different in places with low case numbers, but how is the fair to kids all sitting the same exam?

It’s variable though isn’t it, my DC are being educated, we had 1 case.

@Oaktree55 true, viruses have the power to change all sorts of gene expression.

Vaccinating against rota virus with a live vaccine has been shown to reduce the likelihood of children developing coeliac disease (so presumably catching rota virus can have the same effect; it can just also be very dangerous for young children.)

A good outcome there but we don't know what bad outcomes can happen in some viruses; many are linked to cancer.

Others have been shown to damage organs, and it's looking like this one can affect the heart in particular.

Ecosse - if you have individual heads making school covid policies, this leads to wide variation across the country. It’s like the home learning in March. Govt had no clear policy. Some schools focused on vulnerable kids - getting out supplies/devices to them, some on doing live lessons. Then people complain about the variation... the flip side of independence is the post code lottery.

Personally I think there should be guidance from public health.

but how is the fair to kids all sitting the same exam?

It's not. Two secondary schools near me are totally closed. How is it fair that (so far) my DD has an extra week of teaching? Obviously it could all change, and she could end up missing more than those at other school. Who knows! All I know is it's unfair.

One issue with UK schools is our totally inadequate school building infrastructure. In Korea, we saw pictures of pupils sat at their own desks surrounded by perspex screens (and masks on!). I don't know what if there's any evidence about the effectiveness of this but such distancing would be impossible in your average English classroom where the students are squashed in cheek by jowl. At DH's school nobody is isolated if a staff member tests positive on the grounds that staff should be distancing by 2m at all times. Most of the classrooms are too small to make it possible for teachers to stand anywhere in the room that is 2m away from the students' desks!

On a completely personal level, I actually dread the idea of blended learning. We are a two teacher family with primary aged kids. If ours were only allowed in part time but we would have to be in full-time I do not have any idea what we would do. The only option would be for one or both of us to reduce our hours, but who knows how schools would cope if teachers suddenly can't work their full hours. I think it's unlikely that primary schools at least will go to blended learning so I imagine we will just carry on as normal there, which means that vulnerable staff should be given the option not to work.

Its nothing like a school!! They are adults. Why would parents be listening in? Criticising lecturers... A can of worms!!! Live lessons...are you kidding?

It’s obviously not the same as school but it’s also not obviously any better. Where parents might criticise you in a school, all 250 18 year olds might criticise you from a recorded lecture. They are also likely to be even more technically able and fearless about publicly humiliating you. Clips can be sent to your boss at the university to show why you are not up to the job or just put online. For an academic being shown publicly to have made a simple mistake can also be fatal to your career.

It is pomegranate and I would say blended learning should be considered in those areas most afflicted.

But it could also be used to lessen outbreaks and keep an even keel. If pupils were attending 2-3 days per week, that's better than 2 weeks at home, more if they test positive.

We had a staff member off for 3 weeks as she caught it in a bubble, mildly thankfully, but your 10 days kicks in from onset of symptoms/ positive test.

If teaching parents then have sick or closed bubbled children too, it's even more time off.

We've had huge amounts of staff absence as much due to self isolation or a child's bubble closure as actual cases and closed bubbles; but it all further adds to general educational disruption of what we can offer pupils.

@MarjorytheTrashHeap

One issue with UK schools is our totally inadequate school building infrastructure. In Korea, we saw pictures of pupils sat at their own desks surrounded by perspex screens (and masks on!). I don't know what if there's any evidence about the effectiveness of this but such distancing would be impossible in your average English classroom where the students are squashed in cheek by jowl. At DH's school nobody is isolated if a staff member tests positive on the grounds that staff should be distancing by 2m at all times. Most of the classrooms are too small to make it possible for teachers to stand anywhere in the room that is 2m away from the students' desks!

On a completely personal level, I actually dread the idea of blended learning. We are a two teacher family with primary aged kids. If ours were only allowed in part time but we would have to be in full-time I do not have any idea what we would do. The only option would be for one or both of us to reduce our hours, but who knows how schools would cope if teachers suddenly can't work their full hours. I think it's unlikely that primary schools at least will go to blended learning so I imagine we will just carry on as normal there, which means that vulnerable staff should be given the option not to work.

If there were to be blended learning, then I think there should be provision for keyworkers' children, including teachers.

[quote CallmeAngelina]@LastTrainEast, have You missed the statistic of only 8% of the adult working population having children of primary school age? That combined with schools remaining open for key worker children renders your patronising post less relevant. [/quote]
It’s not just key workers who work. Last lockdown lots of parents went on furlough to homeschool. That’s not an option this time so kids will just be left to attempt it on their own (doable in year 5 with working from home parents and access to a computer in my experience) or won’t do the work and will fall behind. Primary age children need to be in school. This is going to go on till next summer so they would end up with 1.5 years out of school.

At my dds school you can sign into remote learning if you have to self isolate. So dd can hear the lesson and camera is switched on to demonstrate things if that is necessary. She can ask questions in the chat window. It's not as good as being there but it isn't bad. It's an independent school though so I'm expecting this idea to be dismissed out of hand 😏

@Janevaljane

At my dds school you can sign into remote learning if you have to self isolate. So dd can hear the lesson and camera is switched on to demonstrate things if that is necessary. She can ask questions in the chat window. It's not as good as being there but it isn't bad. It's an independent school though so I'm expecting this idea to be dismissed out of hand 😏

That’s exactly what’s happening at my (state) school.

Private schools taught live lessons and managed to withstand parents listening in throughout lockdown. Teachers being afraid of accountability isn't a valid reason for not teaching live.

My ds needs to be in school
With adhd he needs to be in the classroom - there’s far far too many distractions at home ( tv his phone computer console etc). and since I have to work and absolutely can’t work from home, homeschool just doesn’t work for us

It was a disaster in the summer

So far his school has stayed open

Teachers being afraid of accountability isn't a valid reason for not teaching live.

I haven’t seen any fear of accountability. Teachers are concerned that some parents may be unreasonable about what they see.

@Janevaljane

At my dds school you can sign into remote learning if you have to self isolate. So dd can hear the lesson and camera is switched on to demonstrate things if that is necessary. She can ask questions in the chat window. It's not as good as being there but it isn't bad. It's an independent school though so I'm expecting this idea to be dismissed out of hand 😏

Exactly what happened in lockdown at my state school and when there is isolation now.

Private schools taught live lessons and managed to withstand parents listening in throughout lockdown.

FFS, so did lots and lots of state schools, especially secondaries. I did way more than my DH - who teaches at private school.

Live lessons are not a magic bullet and I wish people would stop treating them as if they are.

@pequini

Private schools taught live lessons and managed to withstand parents listening in throughout lockdown. Teachers being afraid of accountability isn't a valid reason for not teaching live.

Yes, we had full live lessons. Some teachers had camera off. All pupils had camera off.