Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

[noblegiraffe]

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

The problem with increasing testing is that you will uncover more cases that otherwise would never have been identified.

That is the point of testing, yes.

Sorry early post fail.

The school have imho been brilliant at engaging parent support.

Through regular newsletters, surveys and their Twitter feed.

One of my friends is a good friend of one of the teachers and the feedback is that the school management have done all they can to mitigate risks to students and teachers but they are limited by budget.

Through the same source I've heard that private schools have been able to pump huge amounts of money into online learning facilities that state schools can't match.

The problem with increasing testing is that you will uncover more cases that otherwise would never have been identified.

Think you mean to say ‘the point of increasing testing is to uncover more cases.

Public health issues should not be decided by parental survey or individual heads. It’s bonkers.

Imo there is a case for reducing or even removing testing in schools

You think you know better than the WHO?

Testing is key.

What you are suggesting is just stupid.

Ecosse,

You wouldn't make them attend. That's jolly nice of you.

So, what about if these vulnerable DC want to attend, or their vulnerable parents would like them to, will you order them back home?

Would you lock the vulnerable away? where? how exactly? for how long? How long wouldbit take to build up herd immunity? (not possible)

Many vulnerable parents probably have children with SEN, unfortunately poverty, ill health, social demographic, parental health or disability often coexist with children who themselves have special needs or need extra support. But not always. Some vulnerable parents are keyworkers. So, you want them compelled or frightened having little to no contact with the outside world? (not possible).

@herecomesthsun

We cannot have large amounts of testing in schools while we have unions and a small number of teachers itching for any excuse possible to advocate closing schools or operating them on a part-time basis.

Given this, the government may have to look at reducing testing in schools to blunt these arguments as the dangers to DC of being out of school are far greater than any threat from coronavirus.

Why don’t we transform all schools into boarding schools and force the teachers and students to live in them? This would both suppress community transmission and permit all those nurses who are also parents to travel to where they are most needed in the country. Some of the nurses could be allocated to each school and they could look after whichever teachers got sick in the process, so they still wouldn’t have to leave.

@MiniTheMinx

I’m not advocating letting the virus rip at all. I do think we need to have some restrictions and I think tier 1 is a good balance. I would also reintroduce shielding on a voluntary and funded basis.

However, I do not agree with minimising deaths from COVID at all costs. Lockdown has huge negative effects including on poverty and health.

We do not try to remove all risk of death from life as normal so I don’t see why COVID should be any different.

[quote Ecosse]@herecomesthsun

We cannot have large amounts of testing in schools while we have unions and a small number of teachers itching for any excuse possible to advocate closing schools or operating them on a part-time basis.

Given this, the government may have to look at reducing testing in schools to blunt these arguments as the dangers to DC of being out of school are far greater than any threat from coronavirus.[/quote]
You’re advocating fascism and gaslighting.

Wow.

A low even for you.

Ecosse, is that you Boris? you talk as much sense as he does.

And it’s not just about death, it’s shout the unknown long term effects.

[quote Ecosse]@herecomesthsun

We cannot have large amounts of testing in schools while we have unions and a small number of teachers itching for any excuse possible to advocate closing schools or operating them on a part-time basis.

Given this, the government may have to look at reducing testing in schools to blunt these arguments as the dangers to DC of being out of school are far greater than any threat from coronavirus.[/quote]
We cannot do without testing, even if some people disagree with your ridiculous opinions.

We don't have enough testing in schools, but its incompetence, not a master plan.

DC are not going to explode if they're out of school for a bit. Schools should be organised better (like Germany) if we want less disruption.

@Boracora

It’s nothing to do with fascism. The government has a duty to keep all DC in school full time. This will be very difficult if parents and staff are hysterical due to increased testing.

It is highly likely that there was significant prevalence of coronavirus in the weeks before schools closed in March. There was no hysterics as we simply did not know due to lack of testing. There were no safety measures at all in place.

There is no evidence that any school staff or DC suffered significant health effects due to the transmission of COVID in schools in March.

Why is nobody standing up for the thousands of families with clinically vulnerable members who will be criminally prosecuted for keeping their children out of schools at home?
Or have lost their children’s education permanently by being forced to de-register?
Or still have the children at school and know family lives are at risk?
The vulnerable are being shafted not supported.

Ecosse I wish you’d refocus your hard work into making schools safer. Air filtration systems for all schools, more space etc. It’d be a far more valuable use of the many hours you spend on here spreading dangerous views about a virus that does not have lasting immunity and affects everyone in random ways, sometimes with long lasting affects.

Shielding the vulnerable is a cosy idea but a simplistic and impossible one. How much will it cost, how possible is it to shield everyone over 60, the overweight, BAME, those with heart problems, diabetes, respiratory conditions, conditions linked to blood clots, those with suppressed immune systems, cancer patients etc AND their families, carers etc. You’re looking at a huge chunk of the country! We pay them all to have a limited life for god knows how long because immunity doesn’t last, so others without these conditions or family with these can crack on?! It’s illogical. And cruel - a two tier system based on discrimination. So fascism again.

[quote Ecosse]@Boracora

It’s nothing to do with fascism. The government has a duty to keep all DC in school full time. This will be very difficult if parents and staff are hysterical due to increased testing.

It is highly likely that there was significant prevalence of coronavirus in the weeks before schools closed in March. There was no hysterics as we simply did not know due to lack of testing. There were no safety measures at all in place.

There is no evidence that any school staff or DC suffered significant health effects due to the transmission of COVID in schools in March.[/quote]
Out school was two thirds empty in March. Parents pulled kids out. Incomparable. And we have no testing figures for March.

Nothing to do with facism? I see your views on here again and again and whilst you’re entitled to believe it’s not, I’m entitled to think it is. Sorry.

Anyway it’s far too late now so retiring before I spend another hour on here.

@Boracora

As I’ve said I do accept that COVID can be very serious for certain groups. However we know which individuals are at risk so it makes sense to protect them.

It is bonkers imo that vulnerable people are currently being expected to attend work and school. They should be funded and supported to stay at home.

I agree that it would be very difficult to protect the vulnerable if we just let COVID ‘rip’ so I do agree with social distancing, face masks where appropriate and measures like the rule of six.

What I do not support is another lockdown that would be catastrophic for not only the economy, but also poverty and health.

I agree that measures like ventilation need to be funded and implemented not only on schools, but also settings like bars and restaurants.

@noblegiraffe

Public health issues should not be decided by parental survey or individual heads. It’s bonkers.

I agree.

Please don't misunderstand my post.

What I said is that the school have been brilliant at engaging with parents and hearing their views whilst obviously following govt advice/protocols.

Having surveys etc has been good imho to allow patents a voice and that's been to the benefit to to school and teachers in that parents have backed tougher measures (eg masks in class).

[quote Ecosse]@Boracora

It’s nothing to do with fascism. The government has a duty to keep all DC in school full time. This will be very difficult if parents and staff are hysterical due to increased testing.

It is highly likely that there was significant prevalence of coronavirus in the weeks before schools closed in March. There was no hysterics as we simply did not know due to lack of testing. There were no safety measures at all in place.

There is no evidence that any school staff or DC suffered significant health effects due to the transmission of COVID in schools in March.[/quote]

• full time? no, could be blended, fine with us.

• hysterical read well informed due to increased testing

• lots of parents sensibly kept kids off mid March. Not hysterically, no.

• teachers died. I know of one personally. That was a significant health effect, for them.

PS can you stop using the word hysterically in that ignorant way please?

You’re advocating fascism and gaslighting.

Yep.

With ideas like this can I volunteer to shield? Will I get paid?

We do not remove all other risk of death from life, no you are right. But most other activities that entail some risk are either risks we choose to take, risks we can assess, and mostly we as individuals deem them necessary. What you are proposing is the government play poker with our lives by hiding the facts. If that is something you are happy with, why bother to come here talking to us?

Surely education isn't necessary. In fact it would be beneficial to have no education if you want to obscure the truth, hide the facts and play roulette with our lives? debate is not necessary either if we follow your logic.

@StatisticalSense if the blended learning is managed well teachers will have the same work to do.

If lessons can be sent out online as they are taught then the children at home on these days get the same class. And the teacher has less running from class to class to teach the same lesson.

It needs some clever IT support but it's entirely feasible. A phone on a stand could send the lesson out live to an audience at home.

We do home learning and the tutor does this routinely. It's just that normal teaching in schools isn't familiar with this.

If children don't have access to a computer or phone for the lesson at home they could be prioritised to come in to school.

Then numbers will be low enough to enable social distancing. And I hope masks are introduced along with coats when windows are open this winter.

These small changes will make secondary schools much safer.

@noblegiraffe

Why on earth should headteachers not have a say over health measures in their individual schools? They know their schools, buildings, staff and DC and what measures are necessary in that particular setting.

Heads are very well qualified and skilled individuals. They are effectively the CEOs of their schools. They should have ultimate decision-making authority.

I'm struggling to understand why @Ecosse is getting such a hard time on this thread if I'm honest.

I don't agree with everything they have posted but I keep going back to my first post on this thread asking what do you want?

Do you think it's worth sacrificing yet another years student's education?