Now we know why the govt were suppressing the schools infection data

[noblegiraffe]

...because for secondary it’s very worrying.

They choose to release it the day before we break up for half term, too late for any circuit breaker like the other U.K. countries.

They’ve quietly removed the assertion that schools aren’t high risk settings from the guidance. At what point are they going to start to be honest about the risks, particularly in sixth forms and colleges?

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928749/Weekly_COVID-19_and_Influenza_Surveillance_Graphs_W43_FINAL.pdf

Frankly it doesn't matter - this virus is going to be around for some time - we simply cannot pause secondary education for older pupils indefinitely. The chances of secondary children getting covid seriously are pretty low. It would be far better for the collective hive of MN to pressurise parents to get their teens to behave responsibly.

Come up with an action plan for the vunerable and let the rest crack on. You only get your free education once.....

Bad form? This is a public forum.

I did reply on there. No one pulled the person up on it though. It was turned a blind eye to.

@CallmeAngelina I'm not sure what you mean about millions of teachers, because nowhere will you have seen me say all teachers anything.

I said some (on here) seem to be directing anger towards parents.

we simply cannot pause secondary education for older pupils indefinitely.

Don’t think anyone has said that we should.

The school DH works at require masks in all "public" areas, ventilation & are very strict with the "bubbles" so breaks, lunch, pick up & drop off are all staggered. Similar story for my dcs school. I think they are doing a great job.

It would be far better for the collective hive of MN to pressurise parents to get their teens to behave responsibly.

I agree with this.

I've seen a number of threads where children have been symptomatic enough to take a test but have still been sent to school.

Another recent one where a teen had a test, went to an 18th weekend party and then to school on Monday only to test positive mid week.

The predicable result being many children and teachers having to isolate.

Pretty sure the parents of my covid deniers/mask refusers/isolation ignorers aren't on mn.

Selfishly, I'm not overly concerned about teenagers getting it. I'm worried about them passing it on to more vulnerable people. I'm also worried about the chance of catching it and becoming ill after. I'm worried about passing it on to older dh. I am not seeing anyone or doing anything other than go to work, so why should I be at risk cos some kid thinks they're above the rules?

Is it time to explain again that we can't send school children home in large numbers as then their parents can't work and the country shuts down.

INCLUDING the people who supply your water and electricity and put out fires etc.

Obviously crap for all teaching staff, not having PPE an' all.

Out of interest, what is the PPE that you think will protect from coronavirus? The 3ply surgical masks are no real protection, and we know that gloves are no better than washing your hands. What can an apron really do,? So PPE really isn't a saviour.

Bad form? This is a public forum

MNHQ are not keen on it.

I said some (on here) seem to be directing anger towards parents

Such as?

Is it time to explain again that we can't send school children home in large numbers as then their parents can't work and the country shuts down.

Given that the OP specifically discusses secondary schools and in particular sixth form and FE colleges, I think you’re being a bit overblown in your concerns that they need their parents at home instead of putting out fires.

@DeRigueurMortis it is very good to hear that your school has masks and some social distancing. My son’s school does not. No one wears a mask in class. This isn’t true of the majority of schools. That could change. Children could be at home without penalty and without deregistering. That could change too.

Also I do think that we have to bring in temporary but stricter measures when community cases rise above a certain rate.

@LastTrainEast

Is it time to explain again that we can't send school children home in large numbers as then their parents can't work and the country shuts down.

INCLUDING the people who supply your water and electricity and put out fires etc.

Well we did shutdown and schools remained open for these key worker's children.

INCLUDING the people who supply your water and electricity and put out fires etc

You need to blame the government for this. Because they said schools are safe (until now) there can be no provision for children of key workers because there isn't a problem in schools.

No plan. Again.

I agree about compliance, many people are not taking symptoms seriously or staying at home while they wait for a test. However again I do think that we collectively have told children repeatedly that they are totally safe, they won’t get it, they won’t pass it on.

We meaning the government etc. I guess to ensure all children were sent back and parents were not worried.

So it’s not that surprising that kids don’t adhere as much - everyone told them they won’t pass it on!

I do have friends who are teachers who have not stopped working all year. Some of them with vulnerable children, or those with disabilities/behavioural problems and some with key workers children.

Although I’d much prefer schools to be open as much as they can. But with a really sensible evidence based plan!

Out of interest, what is the PPE that you think will protect from coronavirus? The 3ply surgical masks are no real protection, and we know that gloves are no better than washing your hands. What can an apron really do,? So PPE really isn't a saviour.

There's a LOT of evidence that masks lower the viral load. Which for teachers in poorly ventilated rooms and close contact with dozens of other people, is really the most dangerous issue.

In reply to the poster who pointed out it’s hard to know with younger children because the milder and different symptoms means they get tested less.

This is very true.

This is why positivity rates are the most reliable. They show the % of children who get a test that are positive.

WHO say 5% and over us bad and shoes testing is failing.

Look at the graph.

Our testing is failing.

10-19 have the highest positivity rate by far.

5-9 have as high a positivity rate as adults and it is quickly rising all the time... look how low it was before schools opened.

10–19 rose shockingly. The slight is likely because 18-19 year old students have been locked in halls.

We could do with seeing the school stages as age ranges. YR-Y2, Y3-Y6, Y7-11 and Y12-13. That would offer more insight.

Just one of many: www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-face-mask-symptoms-protect-severe-mild-immune-monica-gandhi-a9662226.html

The problem is that if you close schools to teens now because there is a problem then they lose that chunk of time forever. When you reopen them the same situation will arise and presumably you'll then ask that the schools close again - losing more time. Frankly closing schools will simply kick the can a few weeks down the line and then we'll be back to the same situation.

Interestingly both my DC board - one school of 900 secondary aged children has had no cases at at all. School has made them sign a contract that they will comply with all rules re mixing etc both inside and outside of school on pain of suspension/exclusion The other has had 3 cases with a lot more in isolation - all as a result of a weekly sixth form boarder going home for the weekend and his dimwitted parents allowing him to go to a massive (and illegal) party at the weekend.

is bad and shows slight dip

apologies. I’m so tired.

@LastTrainEast, have You missed the statistic of only 8% of the adult working population having children of primary school age? That combined with schools remaining open for key worker children renders your patronising post less relevant.

Autumnleavestime, well you're free to pull me up on it. But I stand by what I've said.

I'm not a teacher. I have taught maths in schools years ago under contract LA. I have worked with looked after children in care, I have worked with children with mental health problems and challenging behaviour excluded from school, in residential EBD, and with children in shared care with LDs. I can assure you I have met more than just a few parents who have stated they can't cope to be around their children. And many more that have 'joked to that effect.

Back in August on MN there were many threads, some started by teachers worried about how schools could be made safe. Many threads created by parents to discuss their desire for schools to reopen.
Many parents posted some very limited research to back up their assertions that children didn't transmit the virus. Many teacher bashing comments, just as we have here claiming falsely that teachers want schools closed. Lots of parents believed government propaganda, and many others claimed that they couldn't cope to be at home with their children.

If we are not testing asymptomatic children, or children who do not meet adult testing criteria, the true extent of how many are infected will remain unknown.

I don't want schools closed, but I do think we need a lockdown which is short and sharp and a careful cautious return that factors in SD. DC is in yr 11. I'm in favour of part time and some home learning.

But if we go on as we are, more people will catch it, NHS and ICUs over run, all other acute services unable to cope, more people will die, including parents in their 40s and 50s and more teachers because where early treatment might have saved them they won't receive any treatment, and the economy will crash anyway. Life itself is paramount in the final analysis. oh, and schools will close.

This government are treacherous liars, and can not be trusted. They have very cynically sought to deceive parents and they should be made responsible for not ensuring the safety and welfare of teachers. Why is teaching a special exception to the law where employers must make suitable adjustments to the work place in respect of covid?

[quote IceCreamSummer20]@DeRigueurMortis it is very good to hear that your school has masks and some social distancing. My son’s school does not. No one wears a mask in class. This isn’t true of the majority of schools. That could change. Children could be at home without penalty and without deregistering. That could change too.

Also I do think that we have to bring in temporary but stricter measures when community cases rise above a certain rate.[/quote]

My suggestion is that you contact the school to bring in tougher social distancing measures.

In my sons schools case they did a survey to parents asking what measures they would support.

It was overwhelming in favour of masks at all times (apart from eating and exempt students of course).

The

The problem with increasing testing is that you will uncover more cases that otherwise would never have been identified.

Imo there is a case for reducing or even removing testing in schools except in cases where there is a vulnerable household member. I wouldn’t make vulnerable DC or staff attend at all.

This would calm some of the hysterics, stop DC having to isolate for 2 weeks, keep schools open and may even safely build up some herd immunity.

The testing capacity could then be focused on those who need it most. Perhaps relatives and friends of vulnerable people could be tested to facilitate safe visits. That would certainly be more useful than testing every time little Johnny gets the sniffles.

The highest levels of school compliance about masks come where the government mandates it outside the school as well, as they do in Victoria.

The UK government will not do this as it would suggest schools are not safe, which they aren't.