Pupils sent home in half of England's secondary schools

[herecomesthsun]

...which are of course supposed to be covid secure. Nice that the BBC is covering it,though.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54614111

Just to add my child secondary hadn't had any yet thankfully

There are kids in schools who are off ill with covid symptoms who are not being tested. How would you know about them?

@3littlewords

The main crux of every school thread on here is about the potentially fatal effects it has on ECV pupils teachers and families. A better educational option for them would be of massive benefit not just to those families but everyone else aswell. Many families (myself included) are not worried about the effect of covid if our family gets it, statistically ,the odds are very much in our favour that it would be mild and we will recover and move on. The consequences of repeated isolations, loss of earnings, quality of our mental health is a much higher concern of mine personally. We see many times on MN how horrendous it would be for a child to lose a loved to covid, of course it would be no one is going to argue with that, but what about children who lose loved ones to mental health due to job losses and being kept away from their loved ones ? Are those losses not relevant because its not a loss to covid? I dont know for sure but my guess is suicide is also at a high rate like covid. The mental health in this country is a pandemic in itself that no one likes to talk about.

Then would it not be better all around if more effort went into alternative solutions to keep schools open longer and in a more secure way?

Rather than having very little distancing in secondary school and huge pressure on ECV families to keep sending kids in when they can and want to home school?

How does it help anyone to pressure ECV families to deregister for health concerns? How does it help children?

Believe me, for people in this situation it is not helpful to mental health.

And if some children can WFH or access blended learning, there would be more space/ teacher time potentially for kids in school.

And schools might stay open in a more secure way.

@TheGreatWave

It is relevant that posters are pointing out that there are no cases in their schools when the OP is declaring that covid is rampant.

Again, (for those that have stated it) what leads people to believe that they would know if there was a case in their schools?

@noblegiraffe

Just to add my child secondary hadn't had any yet thankfully

There are kids in schools who are off ill with covid symptoms who are not being tested. How would you know about them?

Sorry to bang on, but further to Noble’s point, I’m not asking about pupils with symptoms, I’m asking about actual confirmed, positive cases. What leads parents to believe they would know.

I don't believe any of the data and reporting about Covid in English schools

Lots of the data is strange eg it's split by age rather than school year so the data for kids 16+ could be referring to school or university students. Similarly 11 year olds could be in primary or secondary which are very different kettles of fish. It really need to be split Primary/Y7-11/Y12-13/University

The cases are being handled very differently around the country- our school in a tier 1 area with 1600 students has had 8 pupils test positive (different years, different days) and the numbers sent home have been 0-10 students so no bubbles burst yet.

To the people who have said that there's no Covid in schools have you read the threads by secondary school staff who have been told not to tell anyone outside the staff if teachers are self isolating to prevent panic? Secondary teachers are not in a bubble so say your child's English teacher is isolating and gets a positive, you wouldn't be told about it and your child wouldn't be contact traced even if they sit at the front of the class close to them? Primary teachers are in bubbles so parents may know about positive cases in adults.

It's good that school children aren't dying but the gulf between exam years is widening each time pupils isolate so it is a problem when university places and further education opportunities are at stake.

@herecomesthsun in what way was what I just said opposite to your response?

What is really positive actually is

• there are government stats available (which we have really wanted to see and which didn't seem to be collated)

and

• the BBC is covering this (when there has often been surprisingly little about schools in the media)

So that's a really good start.

Now we need a more humane policy for the ECV.

And better mitigation measures in schools.

3littlewords

It was more the 'I don't care' bit than anything else tbh.

I don't want schools closed, but I do think we should be open about the fact that schools are NOT and never can be Covid secure. Which does mean that some people are out at risk.

It's not just ECV people who are at risk, but also CV ones.

there are government stats available (which we have really wanted to see and which didn't seem to be collated)

I disagree, I think this is a step backwards in terms of the data we want to see. They are saying how many schools have pupils self-isolating. How many pupils are self-isolating? How many days of face-to-face teaching are being lost to covid? How many of those days are in exam years?

And importantly how many kids are being sent home to isolate because their close contact was in school?

[quote 3littlewords]@herecomesthsun in what way was what I just said opposite to your response? [/quote]
I think we need to have a policy for schools that prioritises the science, tells parents (and society) when there are positive cases, and has proper mitigation measures in place.

I can see that this is of more obvious pressing interest for a family that was shielding. But I think it will help everyone, because I think it's our best hope of keeping schools open this winter, and coming through with our health and our health and education services in as good a shape as possible.

So not opposite, with different emphases perhaps, and it would be great if we could have a focussed policy for schools that embraced people's different needs more.

@Judashascomeintosomemoney so shouid we lock kids away and do home learning?? I don't think so

The problem is just the number of children sent home when there is one case. I thought PHE had changed their policy but this week DSs secondary sent an entire year home because of one case.

In primaries the problem seems mostly to be infected teachers. This week two classes in DDs primary were sent home for that reason.

@noblegiraffe

there are government stats available (which we have really wanted to see and which didn't seem to be collated)

I disagree, I think this is a step backwards in terms of the data we want to see. They are saying how many schools have pupils self-isolating. How many pupils are self-isolating? How many days of face-to-face teaching are being lost to covid? How many of those days are in exam years?

And importantly how many kids are being sent home to isolate because their close contact was in school?

As far as I know, we didn't have that data before, but yes, it would be great to be able to do a deeper dive and see what is going on.

It would be especially good to have information on what is happening with transmission in schools.

I also don’t understand why the different ‘levels’ of school protection, advised here and elsewhere in the world, seem to have been completely dropped.

Whatever people’s view on schools. The scientific consensus is that rising community cases will impact on schools and that at a certain point, schools should reduce/restrict and at some level, they should close.

That seems to have been completely discarded!

Like many here, I am not saying close schools forever. I am for a ‘middle’ compromise. Keep education going for as many as long as possible. But in the safest way possible and do not penalise any parent this year - instead offer support.

[quote Remmy123]@Judashascomeintosomemoney so shouid we lock kids away and do home learning?? I don't think so[/quote]
No one suggested locking kids away????

Choice for different parents and families offering different approaches to learning would be very welcome.

If some families can support blended or temporary home learning that might be a very positive option for some, and a cost effective manoeuvre for the government.

As far as I know, we didn't have that data before, but yes, it would be great to be able to do a deeper dive and see what is going on. I agree, but it has to be a thorough deep dive, preferably in as many other schools/countries and a real, solid ongoing monitoring of the school situation. I’d want the ECDC to liaise with the CDC (who have much more strict, practical guidance on schools that the ECDC) and monitor schools this year.

For me, I am worried if I say got long Covid. My DS has severe SN and whilst I want him in education, I also know that what would completely devastate his future is if I got ill for a long time. I find myself weighing that up daily as I send him off in his crowded school transport to go into an indoor space without masks, mixing with others...

How is it acceptable that my dd (y11) is on her second lot of isolation in one term. Is this something she has to suck up living in tier 3. Close contact from school.
She just had a massive breakdown. More than half her year group at home with 5 cases in her year.

@notevenat20

The problem is just the number of children sent home when there is one case. I thought PHE had changed their policy but this week DSs secondary sent an entire year home because of one case.

In primaries the problem seems mostly to be infected teachers. This week two classes in DDs primary were sent home for that reason.

From an infection control point of view, it is very worrying if contacts aren't being sent home,or if we have to pretend that teachers are always 2m from children when we know very well this isn't happening etc.

If vulnerable families are being made to send kids into school, with a lot of negative outcomes if they don't, then those schools should be following a high standard of infection control.

@starrynight19

How is it acceptable that my dd (y11) is on her second lot of isolation in one term. Is this something she has to suck up living in tier 3. Close contact from school. She just had a massive breakdown. More than half her year group at home with 5 cases in her year.

It's awful for your daughter, especially in an exam year.

What do you think the school should do instead? Or better?

The statistic itself that half of secondary schools have had at least one case is really not remarkable. The average size of a secondary is about 900 so that could just mean 1 in 1800 children have it. That would be a very low number if true.

I am sure the true proportion is much higher than that but you can't guess it from the school stat.

As far as I know, we didn't have that data before

We knew that 21% of secondary schools were partially or fully closed, which meant cases in 21% of secondary schools. Now we have no idea.

I don't know where they have got this 46% figure from of kids self-isolating. How can it only be 46%? Pretty much every class I teach has at least one kid self-isolating at any given time due to waiting for test results or a family member waiting for test results and they are coded exactly the same on the register as kids sent home due to close contact in school with a positive case, same code as the kid who was contacted by track and trace.

Are they saying that 56% of schools have no kids at all currently at home with symptoms, or with family members with symptoms waiting on test results? That doesn't seem likely giving the amount of testing going on.

@herecomesthsun we are all in agreement for the same things but just for different personal reasons.

Just because someone says they want schools to stay open or they are happy with whatever measures their school has implemented doesn't mean they believe their school is covid safe and free from infection it means they know the school is doing the best they can in a bad situation, everyone knows it could be better

54%. Bloody long term this one.

But the kids are well no one is dying thank god

I've had a teaching assistant die of COVID today though.

@notevenat20

The statistic itself that half of secondary schools have had at least one case is really not remarkable. The average size of a secondary is about 900 so that could just mean 1 in 1800 children have it. That would be a very low number if true.

I am sure the true proportion is much higher than that but you can't guess it from the school stat.

Half of all schools have had at least 1 case in one week.

If the children are packed together on buses and in corridors and classrooms, and they remain together in classrooms all day, then the chance of aerosol spread is very high.

Also,secondaries are closely interconnected through friendship, family and social groupings, so the risk of spread from school to school is high.

We know that 1 in 100 secondary school children is confirmed to have covid (see previous graph). Note the slope of the curve at the end.

However, with poor levels of testing & asymptomatic spread this could even be higher.

As you know, immunity does not appear to persist reliably, so this is not a good reason for wanting children to get infected.