Seems like no matter what we won’t ‘win’

[MonsterMash2210]

I don’t post or anything usually, I am more of a lurker if I am honest. However I am really starting to find everything just so hard.

Is it time to admit that whatever we do we are just well and truly screwed? Lockdown or don’t lockdown I cannot see any scenario where there won’t be major casualties one way or another.

I have listened and looked into both side of the lockdown argument and I agree with them both. It just feels like we are doomed and there just seems to be no end to it. I am just so deflated. No matter what society and the NHS, our economy, education, everything will be destroyed.

Sad thing is, it’s not just us. Things look just as bleak in other countries. I really do fear what will happen if an effective vaccine or treatment is never found.

I’m not usually this bleak and on a personal level I am not worried about myself at all. However on a wider level amongst my friends and family and even society as a whole. I am very worried. I am usually the one telling people everything will be ok, don’t worry. However right now, I am struggling to be positive. I could really do with someone reassuring me.

I just want some glimmer of hope I guess. I am doing everything I am supposed to but I just don’t know what the answer is or what is right anymore.

I am just so tired, I am running out of fight in me I think.

It is tough but there seems to be fairly widespread agreement from various scientists that we are 3-6 months away from some fairly game changing developments in terms of both treatment and the vaccine. Once those are up and running we will start to move back to something much closer to normality.

This Winter will be tough and I think we just have to get our heads down and get through it. This is not the first pandemic mankind has seen and it won't be the last. We made it through all the others (with much poorer understanding of the science) and so no reason to suppose things won't eventually right themselves this time either. Will just take a bit longer is all.

Europe fucked up big time with its summer of open borders, vacations and pretending like everything has gone back to normal. As a result this winter will be quite grim. But by December time results of phase 3 vaccine trials will be rolling in thick and fast, so let’s hope there’s good news by then.

Thanks both of you, I really hope a treatment or vaccine comes about.

3-6 months doesn’t seem too bad if that is true.

Need to just give myself a shake and keep doing what I am doing.

Probably best to stay off Facebook as well.

You might find it helpful to watch this:

m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Xxyg0zkt8Bc

I really do fear what will happen if an effective vaccine or treatment is never found.

There's really no reason at all to think this.

People will continue to catch and die from COVID-19, just as they do from influenza and other viruses. It probably won't be eradicated, it doesn't currently look like it's just going to fizzle out either.

But there are loads of vaccine trials happening, and treatments/prognosis is improving all the time.

Restrictions and general bloody inconvenience will persist for at least 6 months, minimum. Economically things are fucking awful, but that's not unique to the UK - as you say, it is affecting everything. In a way, that levels the playing fields a bit.

There's no way out but through, so we just have to get on with it, and look for the little things to appreciate instead of dwelling on the bad stuff too much. You can't actually change anything by worrying about it anyway, so it's wasted energy.

Economically things are fucking awful, but that's not unique to the UK

but it is, because our economy is particularly service-driven, and then there's the B word...

There's no way out but through, so we just have to get on with it, and look for the little things to appreciate instead of dwelling on the bad stuff too much

This is very true, something I have struggled to remember. Thank you for the reminder.

Thank you for the video Sunshine, I will watch later when the kids are in bed.

Thank you once again everyone, I will try to stop worrying so much and just do my bit to stop the spread and focus on what I do have. I know I still have a lot to be thankful.

I am glad I posted, thank you for giving me some hope back and a reality check.

I know how you feel op, I see both sides of the argument for lockdown/anti lockdown and sit on the fence. I feel like I’ve just got to go with the flow, worrying and getting stressed won’t make any difference, it’s a situation we can’t control.

It was reported on breakfast tv this morning that Jonathan Van-Tam is hopeful for a vaccine sometime in December. It will end, there is light at the end of the tunnel, normal life will resume, keep your chin up.

And stay off Facebook.

Thanks, it’s good to see that there should hopefully be a vaccine soon.

I will stay away from Facebook now, it’s really bringing me down.

Thank you everyone!

I get you OP.

But part of it is the way the media is spinning it.

There are some effective treatments already as well.

Yes, Hester!

Saw the headline for an article about what (I think?) Vallance has said about a vaccine. However, the headline had such a negative spin to it. It really made it sound like he was announcing it’s all hopeless and there will never be a vaccine.

However, for once I decided to read the article and it seems like all he was saying was that a vaccine won’t eradicate the virus. Which to me is fine, I don’t necessarily need the virus to ‘go away’, I just want it to be safe to hug my family or go to the supermarket.

I am not worried about myself but I do worry about others. I don’t want to risk someone dying because I was just doing something completely normal like talking to someone.

If a vaccine and better treatments can allow us to live fairly normally then that is good. Yes, it would be nice if the virus did just vanish but if that isn’t possible right now then fair enough. Being able to safely live with the virus is better than nothing.

I don’t mind waiting now I know what I am waiting for.

@MonsterMash2210

Yes, Hester!

Saw the headline for an article about what (I think?) Vallance has said about a vaccine. However, the headline had such a negative spin to it. It really made it sound like he was announcing it’s all hopeless and there will never be a vaccine.

However, for once I decided to read the article and it seems like all he was saying was that a vaccine won’t eradicate the virus. Which to me is fine, I don’t necessarily need the virus to ‘go away’, I just want it to be safe to hug my family or go to the supermarket.

I am not worried about myself but I do worry about others. I don’t want to risk someone dying because I was just doing something completely normal like talking to someone.

If a vaccine and better treatments can allow us to live fairly normally then that is good. Yes, it would be nice if the virus did just vanish but if that isn’t possible right now then fair enough. Being able to safely live with the virus is better than nothing.

I don’t mind waiting now I know what I am waiting for.

There is literally no way whatsoever to ensure you are always 'safe.' There was always a risk when you interacted with other people - you could have caught meningococcal meningitis and died, you could have passed on flu to someone who then died - it's just that you were never made to feel that that was your fault or that you had to stop your life for fear of it happening. Trying to eliminate all risk is madness, it results in the stupidity we're living in now, where people genuinely think plunging millions into poverty is an acceptable and even necessary response.

Covid will always be around. There will always be a 'risk,' as there always has been with many many other viruses. The difference will be that people will finally wake up and realise that you have to keep living in spite of the 'risk.'

It will all be good by the end of 2020, by which time we may or may not have saved a few old people. Only by then there will be 4-5m unemployed, suicide rates will be through the roof, repossessions will be back close to early 90s levels, MH issues will have rocketed, millions will be facing dying earlier than they otherwise would have done due to cancer/stroke/heart attacks, countless marriages will have completely broken down due to the emotional and financial strain of lockdown, millions of kids will have fallen behind with their education, so on and so forth.
And, of course, we can look forward to the next decade of paying for all this. If anybody seriously thinks the austerity measures we will see implemented to pay for all this wont impact the NHS which the pro-lockdown brigade are so keen to protect, they are deluded.
I don't think it will ever be possible to quantify how many lives have been blighted by the ridiculous, infantile overreaction to this virus by our mealy-mouthed, incompetent, hypocritical leaders. They will still be writing books on it a century from now.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

It will all be good by the end of 2020, by which time we may or may not have saved a few old people. Only by then there will be 4-5m unemployed, suicide rates will be through the roof, repossessions will be back close to early 90s levels, MH issues will have rocketed, millions will be facing dying earlier than they otherwise would have done due to cancer/stroke/heart attacks, countless marriages will have completely broken down due to the emotional and financial strain of lockdown, millions of kids will have fallen behind with their education, so on and so forth. And, of course, we can look forward to the next decade of paying for all this. If anybody seriously thinks the austerity measures we will see implemented to pay for all this wont impact the NHS which the pro-lockdown brigade are so keen to protect, they are deluded. I don't think it will ever be possible to quantify how many lives have been blighted by the ridiculous, infantile overreaction to this virus by our mealy-mouthed, incompetent, hypocritical leaders. They will still be writing books on it a century from now.

I totally agree. What fucks me off is that all of the pro-lockdown dickheads will be the same ones complaining next year when they finally realise the price they have to pay. They'll claim they didn't see it coming, they didn't realise, blah blah blah. God it's so fucking predictable it just makes me despair thinking about it.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

Wow I totally agree.

Why do so many people not see this?

Winter is going to be tough. But I've been mentally prepared for that. This year has been a shit show from start to finish, but next year won't be. We just have to focus on getting through this winter/year and seeing where we are in the spring. It won't go on forever. Hang in there.

[quote Ouchy]@toxtethOgradyUSA

Wow I totally agree.

Why do so many people not see this?[/quote]
Dogma. I think people have become incredibly dogmatic on this issue.

Agree 100% @toxtethOgradyUSA But we shouldn't worry about any of that because there might be a vaccine 'sometime soon'. Nothing else matters, does it?

Health AND economy. You can't keep the economy going 100% as normal if there is Bergamo-in-the-spring style chaos. Sorry.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Agree 100% *@toxtethOgradyUSA* But we shouldn't worry about any of that because there might be a vaccine 'sometime soon'. Nothing else matters, does it?

The vaccine has become like Waiting for Godot ...

This is the fastest ever roll out for a vaccine, and it is for a novel pathogen. Again, you need to tailor your expectations to reality.

The vaccine has become like Waiting for Godot ...

I compare it to waiting for a train on the Circle line. The noises suggest there's a train on the way but it never actually appears at the platform.

I felt exactly like this OP, I'm also ignoring the news and Facebook and only really looking on Mumsnet now, I don't think the change in daylight hours/weather is helping either. Hope you feel better soon you aren't the only one

It can't stay like this forever because it's just not sustainable for anyone.

People simply are not going to tolerate not being able to see loved ones for the long term. And it's unrealistic to think they will.

Masks I think may become a thing - they certainly are in asia and is that really such a bad idea? In Asia it's a form of politeness to cover your face should you be unwell. I don't really see why this would be a bad thing to have in society. I mean I don't care if I catch covid because I don't think it would have a whole lot of affect on me (and I've had it anyway and it was mild)...but there are other illnesses, which for my own health reasons, would be much more severe and life altering. So I certainly wouldn't be objecting if this culture of "presenteeism" changed and was replaced with a culture of protecting others if you are unwell.

It's not a nice situation, sure. To be honest it doesn't fuss me, my life is largely the same - my kids are at school, I'm at school and covering my face at work or in public doesn't fuss me in the slightest. But , I understand why this is not a nice situation for many many people.

I think the attitude of oh well we'll just shield the vulnerable and all get on with our lives in horrible. One, I'm vulnerable myself (although chose not to shield) and I don't feel like I'm particularly expendible - I'd like to think I'm worth something!) but two, the attitude of locking up old people while we all carry on is horrible. They deserve dignity and to see their loved ones as much as anyone else.

So I think that the precautions as they are will need to stay. Yes they mostly protect the elderly but I just think of it like, well some of the restrictions are not good / pointless to me because I am not bothered by covid. However, if when I'm 75 another killer virus that could harm me comes around, I would like to think that the world doesn't shut me away because I'm at risk and they're not.

I therefore try to think of this situation as that the elderly population are who have got us to where we are today. They've worked their way out of the awful circumstances during and after the war to build our country and economy up so that we could be born and prosper with our own families today. If not for their strength and moral and hard work we wouldn't be where we are today.

So it's a miserable situation to not be able to do the things we want but, I like to think of it as doing our bit for those who came before us to give them dignity and keep them safe for as long as they're here. .

Yes I know it affects younger people but to me that goes without saying. I'm disabled and therefore whilst I'm not bothered, I wouldn't want to risk other people who are.

I've rambled on a bit here but I think that we just need to think about why certain things are happening.

If there isn't a vaccine we will learn to live with it and we will find better ways of treating it. Look how it's gone from -- no treatment at all , to some treatments in just a few months.

Maybe im used to not having much expectations of things - I take a lot of drugs to manage my conditions and usually they don't actually work, so I've long since given in on pinning my hopes on one thing - but when stuff doesn't work you try again and just keep going.

And finally - life always changes and it isn't always for the good. And this affects everyone at some point. I've lost a child. That was fucking horrendous and it changed my entire life forever more. That wasn't a positive change. Other people have lost people important to them, been through horrible break ups or many many traumatic experiences. So actually we need to remember we are more resilient than we think.

This situation seems massive because it affects the whole world, but I think you need to think back to things you have coped with before in your own life and the things that you've been through and realise actually - we do have the ability to face adversity.

Anyway I'll shut up now!

I hope to God masks don't become a thing here like in Asia. People will become less and less social if they become the norm here permanently. You can't communicate properly in them. It's horrible not being able to smile at people and vice versa. It's hard enough making friends as it is these days without having the extra barrier of a mask.