NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections

[noblegiraffe]

The NEU has called for a two week closure of secondary schools and colleges following a more than 9-fold increase in the infection rate in secondary school children in a month.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-teachers-demand-2-week-school-closures-after-cases-jump

The infection rate in Y7-11 was 0.5% last week, according to the ONS survey of random households, but this nearly doubled to 0.93% in the latest set of figures. This rise cannot be ignored or passed off as relating to university students as has happened so far.

In other, entirely unrelated news, 61% of teachers report that if a student doesn't wear a mask in a school where they are mandated in communal areas 'nothing happens'.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-61-staff-say-nothing-done-if-pupils-wont-wear-masks

And Teacher Tapp data from yesterday had 26% of teachers reporting that their schools were partially closed to students.

In the meantime, the testing positivity rate in 10-19 year olds is 17%, which means that this group is severely under-tested and lots of cases will be missed. The rate should be below 5%.

Yet the insistence continues that in any lockdown scenario, schools will remain open. Idiocy.

think about the covid-19 test sites or supermarkets...

You make a very good point about supermarkets! Why don't we hear from hoards of furious supermarket workers decrying their fate? Supermarkets can't shut at all!

The point being made was about whether teachers are at more risk than other professions. I then mentioned that infection from colleagues when socialising may be the main source.

You were trying to suggest that socially distanced half empty office workers had the same risk as teachers because they might socialise with colleagues. But teachers have colleagues and also non socially distanced kids breathing on them all day. I’m not sure why you think the office worker would be at equal risk.

Why don't we hear from hoards of furious supermarket workers decrying their fate?

Maybe their voices are muffled by the masks they wear. That’s why teachers aren’t supposed to wear them.

You were trying to suggest that socially distanced half empty office workers had the same risk as teachers because they might socialise with colleagues.

I am actually not trying to argue a point, which I realise may be an alien concept. I am wondering if, given the evidence that parents were not much more at risk fu when their children were in school, if teachers may also not have much increased risk over and above the normal risk of going to work with colleagues, travel to and from work etc

I'm a teacher and I'm certainly not in favour of school closures for anything more than a week. Personally I struggled with remote learning. I'm a single Mum to my son who has just turned 2. I have already spoken to my headteacher about working from school if we are forced to close but that would only be possible if the nursery are still open. All of my friends are teachers and school had been very hard and tiring for all of us since our return in September but none of us want schools to close. Our concern with schools remaining open is that the teenagers we teach are not social distancing. We are having a daily battle to get them to follow the rules but their parents are allowing sleepovers and are not making them distance so we continue to fight this losing battle. Yesterday I had just under 180 students in my classroom in less than 6 hours. One of those students has just returned after having a positive COVID diagnosis and yesterday stepped into the box marked on the floor which is supposed to protect me by telling the students to keep back. As a teacher all I want to do is get on with my job but without the having to worry about increasing numbers of students testing positive. My school has only had positive cases in students so far and the majority of us do not socialise with each other outside of school as we are taking the risk seriously. We don't take break and lunch breaks with each other anymore either. I live in an area that has just moved into high risk today but I work 5 miles away in an area that is still medium risk. Yesterday I had to explain to students why they shouldn't be hugging and why I would be spending half term alone with my little boy and not seeing my friends. Their response was that is wasn't their problem. I work in a lovely school with a good reputation but something needs to happen to get these parents and teenagers understanding the risk. And for anyone who thinks we had an easy ride during lockdown. I worked most nights until midnight preparing work for my students, recording videos to help them learn and then was woken by my little boy by 6am. It certainly isn't the choice I would make for myself and my son who lives me constantly on my iPad and having meetings.

@TheKeatingFive

Is anyone going to be monitoring the quality of the remote learning? Given the god awful quality of what was delivered by some schools last time,

Last time schools had days to prepare for what they were told would be 2 weeks. This time it has been made law that children isolating or away from school have to be educated the same as children in school. More preparation has been done and I know well be doing live or prerecorded lessons as well as providing resources.

I had to face up to the fact years ago that F2F teaching in m/s wasn't 'good' for DS2 given the circumstance of his autism and ADHD. But I still valued skilled, educated subject teachers that could impart knowledge and would teach him something and enable him to gain qualifications. Maybe in the future he will go to college and uni F2F - maybe he will continue to learn remotely. There is always a way.

It has impacted on my life plans and I had to mourn my loss of an imagined future but it was the best choice and I had to learn to accept it.

Maybe this is all a fuss about nothing, you don't have to change and you can stamp your feet and insist and insult those trying to help, but just maybe, you will have to learn to adapt and accept that you are railing against things that are beyond your control regardless of how pissed off you are.

Do you think that they will continue to have little or no cases? What do you think they are doing that makes them different to schools that have had to send groups home/fully close?

Many schools are overcrowded and poorly ventilated, but not all of them. Much like with any work setting, some buildings and needed numbers in them can handle this more safely than others.

My DS1's college has for years rented out their spaces to other schools and businesses to run courses in their several large buildings. This year, that's not happening, all the courses have been moved around the buildings and changes in time so he barely sees anyone else other than the two teachers and the 7 other Y10 and Y11 kids he's in class with in a vocational classroom that to deal with all the equipment is quite large and well-ventilated. It's a concern for funding, but not much for COVID.

Why should he and his peers working towards vocational qualifications who are already only in one day a week be considered the same for closing as my DDs' in a hodgepodge temporary building that had to spend lockdown and summer putting in makeshift facilities and doesn't even have enough space to run PE on site so buses forms together to do so (they used to rent spaces at the college for this, now they use the leisure centre track. Not looking forward to winter).

I heard throughout lockdown that the rules applied to other places should apply to schools too. I see that argument - but that would still mean my DS1 can have his BTEC day at college and this would apply to other schools and education provisions with few pupils to the space. I live in a city and even here, we can't assume that all Y7-Y11 kids are at bursting at the seams comprehensives.

It may be few in comparison, but across the country that's still going to be a lot of kids who shouldn't be punished because education funding has been so shite that too many are stuck in facilities that aren't coping well. As much as I agree that the system could use an overhaul in many ways, and a lot more needs to be thought on how to help kids currently and soon-to-be working on qualifications, but that doesn't start be treating all educational settings the same.

Why should he and his peers working towards vocational qualifications who are already only in one day a week

If there was a week added to half term to form a circuit break, your DS would miss one day of school?

Is it some sort of special school? Last time special provision was supposed to stay open.

If they close they won't open again til 2021......

Worth bearing in mind that supermarket workers didn't get paid if they don't work.

@Venicelover my point was that it’s easy to call for school closures/lockdowns if you yourself are not affected financially and continue in a secure job with full pay. That applies to teachers and the scientists mentioned.

As it happens, Whitty and Vallance do have a conflicts of interest in respect of shares in the possible vaccine but that’s a separate matter.

@Ylvamoon

Someone working in a half empty, socially distanced well-ventilated office faces less risk than a teacher in a classroom with hundreds of different kids breathing on them

There are many professions that will face hundreds of different people... or actually infected people... think about the covid-19 test sites or supermarkets...
I think you need to look for a new profession if you feel threatened - gardening springs to mind! It's outdoors, just avoid the jam packed parks when the sun is out!

Ooh I do love a post when someone say to a teacher find another job. Maybe we should be saying that to non teaching posters as well. After all the government is saying people can retrain in cyber security

No, it isn't a special school. He goes to a 'mainstream' college that runs vocational KS4 programme that includes BTEC (mostly done on campus) and GCSEs (which moved online). I know of other colleges that run similar, some from Y9. Some places consider it alternative provisions, others it's just another programme, none I know would it fall under special schools - it's open to anyone, few take the route. His programme closed like the rest of college in March. They're already behind in BTEC assessments and running a shorter day than they were previously as part of making the space safer, but for him that means every hour there counts.

So yes, it would be one less day on-campus for him if we assume that closure would last only two weeks in England. I have my doubts on that. I don't think any schools that can meet the same safety requirements should have to close alongside the ones that can't. All of lockdown I heard that was standard people wanted - that schools should be as safe as any other workplace. If some places can do that, even if that's a minority of places, I don't see how it can be issue if they continue as they are.

I don't see the benefit in acting like every school and college is a cramp, unventilated mess. I don't think reforms to what's going wrong start by assuming all educational settings and programmes are the same.

I am a teacher and I absolutely would love it if schools stayed open. I worked throughout lockdown (school by day for keyworkers, my own class online at night, in lunchbreaks, etc). We did our very best but in school is preferable for most kids.

That said, I have worked really, really hard to get my class (parents and children) ready for online learning in case we do need to close. I can already see it is not as successful for all families. There may be lots of reasons - poor Wifi, busy parents, lack of devices, multiple children...

If we have to close, a controlled closure that we plan for would work much better. We could then send home suitable material for those who don't easily access online materials. We could make sure it is not mid-way through a unit of work, etc. Some of my scheduled lessons for next week need a group / a playground, etc. I would teach them earlier or later, for example, if I knew a closure was coming.

Above all, I feel that by denying the risks in schools, we are rendering ourselves unable to talk about how to mitigate or plan around those risks.

When writing a risk assessment you would usually look at the likelihood of a risk, severity of a risk, and then mitigations. If we can be honest about the likelihood and severity of covid risks in schools then we can work out how to best mitigate them - open windows, part time school, hiring other space, circuit breaker, masks, or whatever.

Just like Ocado drivers didn't take plastic bags back during lockdown but now will however the householder puts them straight into a special bag. Someone has looked objectively at the risk and worked out how to mitigate it.

Singing la-la-la-there's-no-risk or calling teachers work-shy is not a great way to solve any problems.

There is a lot of suggestion that schools are a major hotspot for covid. My kids have told me social distancing is non existent at school so I certainly go along with this.
But, there are several factors here:

• If schools only shut for 2 weeks what difference will it make? Surely we are back to square one when they reopen? I mean this is basically obvious right?
• This government has form for lying out of its arse. Who would believe it if they told us schools were only closing for 2 weeks? This is why people are worried.
• If teachers are genuinely worried about going into work, why not retrain or get another job? The rest of us who face having to give up work due to school closures face this prospect. Why should teachers be such a special case?

"If teachers are genuinely worried about going into work, why not retrain or get another job?"

Not this again. Try and think for just one minute what would happen to your children's education if all the teachers who are anxious actually did what you suggest.

If teachers are genuinely worried about going into work, why not retrain or get another job? The rest of us who face having to give up work due to school closures face this prospect.

I have every sympathy for all those whose livelihoods are at risk because the places they wok in cannot be made covid-secure and so cannot re-open - e.g. those who work in events; sport; theatre; music; nightclubs etc etc.

I also have eevry sympathy for those whose workplaces have opened, but are being forced to close again because of Covid measures - e.g. those who work in hospitality in tier 3 areas.

I am not sure why the existence of these groups means that as a teacher I should leave my job - which very much exists and is open, whether it in the classroom or online - and retrain?

[quote WouldBeGood]@Venicelover my point was that it’s easy to call for school closures/lockdowns if you yourself are not affected financially and continue in a secure job with full pay. That applies to teachers and the scientists mentioned.

As it happens, Whitty and Vallance do have a conflicts of interest in respect of shares in the possible vaccine but that’s a separate matter.[/quote]
Whitty and Valance were given shares in the course of their employment in Pharma, and it was quite a long time ago I think. Many of us have the same with our employers. I suppose it comes down to whether you believe everyone is corruptible?

Do you really think the majority of teachers don't want the best for their students and society? That they don't like teaching?

Can you really not see the issue in schools and colleges, or are you choosing not to see it?

If teachers are genuinely worried about going into work, why not retrain or get another job? The rest of us who face having to give up work due to school closures face this prospect. Why should teachers be such a special case?

All of them?
Yes, I can see education is important to you!

That is using bully boy tactics on the teaching profession - get on with it, put yourselves at risk without PPE/social distancing or get out.

Do you do that at work? Are you forced to do it?

Why do people think teachers prefer teaching from home? It’s a bloody nightmare, everything takes twice as long and you have to reteach everything when the children return anyway for a variety of reasons.

And that’s leaving out issues that teachers - like MANY other roles - have trying to work from home as a parent with children underfoot. I’m ashamed to say that my own toddler fell down the decking stairs in April because I was frantically trying to film a teaching video and didn’t hear her turn the key and open the door.

Are teachers infected at a higher rate than other workers? Well, at my school, we have 7 (I think, may be more) positive cases out of approximately 200 staff. That's equivalent to 3500 per 100,000. Cases in my local area stand at 160 per 100,000 according to Covid Messenger, which I admit may be a little out of date.

So, that's approximately 20 times higher.

We have 23 students out of about 1800 students. That's a rate of 1,277 per 100,000.

Isn't it strange that cases in students are over 10 times the local area, and cases in staff are 20 times the local area - and yet it's got fuck all to do with them being in the same school.

Just sheer coincidence that we have two completely separate clusters, both occurring at the same place, at the same time, and yet totally unrelated.

Careful you don't pull a muscle with those mental gymnastics there.

Sorry, cases in students aren't over 10 times higher, they're a little short.

Venicelover Vallance has 600k of shares in a pharma business which has vaccine interests. And he is advising courses of action which could impact the price of such shares.
Are you seriously telling me you can't recognise that this is a monumental conflict of interest?

I've said this before on similar threads but it warrants repeating: why should I resign from a job I (usually) enjoy, am very good at and am necessary to the continued smooth running of my school? Why can I not expect that basic measures are taken for my safety, as they have been in other sectors?
Why do we have to wear a mask at the supermarket, but not in schools? Why are we not allowed into the vet surgery with our pets, but visitors can enter our school buildings? Why do we accept compulsory temperature checks at, say, theme parks, but say that it's some sort of infringement of human rights to check the temperatures of children arriving at school?

Some very childish responses here.

Get another job - like that would help.

Don't pay them if they don't work - so no remote learning then, no places for key workers.

Schools must stay open - no they mustn't if the government decides to close them, they will.

Stamping your foot and making petulant demands is no solution to the problem faced by schools.

How about being supportive of those educating your children instead of slagging them off on an anonymous website?