NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections

[noblegiraffe]

The NEU has called for a two week closure of secondary schools and colleges following a more than 9-fold increase in the infection rate in secondary school children in a month.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-teachers-demand-2-week-school-closures-after-cases-jump

The infection rate in Y7-11 was 0.5% last week, according to the ONS survey of random households, but this nearly doubled to 0.93% in the latest set of figures. This rise cannot be ignored or passed off as relating to university students as has happened so far.

In other, entirely unrelated news, 61% of teachers report that if a student doesn't wear a mask in a school where they are mandated in communal areas 'nothing happens'.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-61-staff-say-nothing-done-if-pupils-wont-wear-masks

And Teacher Tapp data from yesterday had 26% of teachers reporting that their schools were partially closed to students.

In the meantime, the testing positivity rate in 10-19 year olds is 17%, which means that this group is severely under-tested and lots of cases will be missed. The rate should be below 5%.

Yet the insistence continues that in any lockdown scenario, schools will remain open. Idiocy.

Doesn't that study show exactly that teachers in schools are at additional risk?

There are two results in that paper. One about parents and one about teachers.

The problem with the one about teachers is that they are comparing people going to work to people not going to work. There will be an increased risk for anyone going to work but they don't compare it for teachers vs non-teachers.

It's also inconsistent with the result for parents to say that they are being infected by the children.

So the only interesting bit of information I take from that paper is the tiny increase for parents.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

What's your working situation OP? Are you okay financially right now? Is your job under threat with Covid? If you are gonna sit on your high horse you should at least be upfront about these things.

Yeah, that’s true, I totally hide the fact that I’m a secondary maths teacher.

There will be an increased risk for anyone going to work but they don't compare it for teachers vs non-teachers.

Engaging common sense for a minute, do you think that it will be riskier for a gardener to go to work than a teacher?

@toxtethOgradyUSA I teach KS1 and set about an hour and a half a day, broken down into twenty minute activities. There was more available but nobody did the extra as that was all their children could manage. Now the children who did the core tasks are all on track. It turns out that an hour and a half a day of 1:1 works. The rest of the school experience for young children is not something that can be replicated over a screen. If you were expecting your children not to bother you all day, then there's always CBeebies as I posted up thread.

Not many primary parents want more than an hour and a half a day of work they will inevitably need to supervise, especially if there's more than one young child in the family.

Of course, everyone wants their child to be independently working away from an adult for the period of time that their parents need to get on with other things, but we're all going to have to get real about what we can expect from very young children.

Thankfully at the moment nobody is calling for primaries to close, but the line on the latest graph posted up thread for ages 2-12 is not looking as flat as before, and we don't want to unthinkingly plod along regardless as has happened with secondary schools.

Yeah, that’s true, I totally hide the fact that I’m a secondary maths teacher.
So what's your advice to my neighbour? Young mum, works school hours. No holidays left and likely to have to take unpaid leave if they shut the schools for an extra length of time again. And already struggling to make ends meet financially. Fears she may lose her job and potentially her home if schools start closing again.
What's your advice to her?

@MarshaBradyo

Ah One more question MrsHercule What proportion of students would need to be in every day? I think this is where it gets tricker as do other students get half time in?

As in what proportion of vulnerable/need to be in students? Not sure, data being collated still I think. We are trying to secure devices for those that need that would mean less would ‘have’ to be in and we really can focus on getting those in we need to have to keep safe.

To answer your other questions - yes trialling it I guess. I work in an area that has gone into tier 2 (area tiers) today. We are therefore moving school to tier 1 (school tiers) from Monday.

We are expected to provide remote education to those not in for Covid related reasons (eg self isolating but not ill themselves) so this is our way around it. At the moment we can record those lessons also and so students can access later when convenient if that helps them. It absolutely is not ideal, I have to think carefully about front loading my lessons with the instructional bit - I can’t just write on my whiteboard as students at home can’t see so I need to think about how I do that etc... because my subject as had NO content removed and is not even being pushed back at all we cannot afford to lose pace/lessons. It’s a nightmare.

Yes the groups of who is in and out woukd swap every two weeks so they would be in half the time. For me I would rather they split down middle I think in this scenario so when they are in, in a smaller class of 15 I can give them individual support better. If we do it with whole year groups I’d still have 30 in a room and couldn’t get move individual support if that makes sense.

Engaging common sense for a minute, do you think that it will be riskier for a gardener to go to work than a teacher?

Those are not the only two professions :). Office jobs might be a good comparison.

@WouldBeGood

* SAGE/other medical experts wouldn't fall into that category.*

They fall exactly into that category as their income is not affected and jobs secure

Do you believe they have a vested interest other than the best outcome for society as a whole?

What would that be?

@toxtethOgradyUSA

Shut the schools then, just don't pay the teachers for the time they are closed. That seems fair right?

That's hardly fair as teachers will still be working to provide lessons etc so why not be paid.

Barbie222 all well and good. But what about those families where one member works school hours to make ends meet? Believe me, there are a lot of them. Seriously, what do you expect them to do? Do they sell their house? Where will they get another job when there are no jobs at the moment?

@toxtethOgradyUSA

Yeah, that’s true, I totally hide the fact that I’m a secondary maths teacher. So what's your advice to my neighbour? Young mum, works school hours. No holidays left and likely to have to take unpaid leave if they shut the schools for an extra length of time again. And already struggling to make ends meet financially. Fears she may lose her job and potentially her home if schools start closing again. What's your advice to her?

Why should she have any advise for this person. The op is not responsible for the pandemic, ridiculous question.

So what's your advice to my neighbour? Young mum, works school hours. No holidays left and likely to have to take unpaid leave if they shut the schools for an extra length of time again. And already struggling to make ends meet financially. Fears she may lose her job and potentially her home if schools start closing again.
What's your advice to her?

That a two week circuit breaker might help stop the spread of infection in schools so she hopefully doesn’t have her kids in and out of school isolating or the school closes because there aren’t enough staff to keep it open.

So what's your advice to my neighbour? Young mum, works school hours. No holidays left and likely to have to take unpaid leave if they shut the schools for an extra length of time again. And already struggling to make ends meet financially.

She's likely to have to take two weeks off at some point isn't she as the government have badly let her down by opening schools without enough mitigation to stop the spread. Maybe unlike you she's seen the writing on the wall about this. Maybe it's a good idea if we all took some joint action to bring the rate down so she had a fighting chance of only having to do this once rather than again and again until next Easter.

Fears she may lose her job and potentially her home if schools start closing again. What's your advice to her?

What’s her plan for when her kid has to isolate unexpectedly for 2 weeks due to a positive case at school?

A planned 1 week circuit-break added to half term that affects everybody at the same time would be shit, but possibly viewed differently by her employer (who may also have to close).

Closures that are planned should come with support measures.

@notevenat20

Engaging common sense for a minute, do you think that it will be riskier for a gardener to go to work than a teacher?

Those are not the only two professions :). Office jobs might be a good comparison.

Exactly. People going to work are not facing equal risk. But common sense tells us a gardener faces less risk than a teacher.

Someone working in a half empty, socially distanced well-ventilated office faces less risk than a teacher in a classroom with hundreds of different kids breathing on them.

Increasing close contacts increases risk. Scientists say that older teens pose the same risk of transmission as adults.

Why do we need to wait for the exact piece of data you are demanding instead of thinking logically?

I'm massively irritated by the expectations that the op should have answers for anything pandemic based. She could have the best idea in the world but it would not matter as op is not in charge of the country. I do think a circuit break sounds inevitable because the rise of cases is so so high.

Someone working in a half empty, socially distanced well-ventilated office faces less risk than a teacher in a classroom with hundreds of different kids breathing on them.

This is speculation. It may be that most infection comes from socialising with colleagues at work or just after. But the point is that if teaching is no more dangerous than any other typical job, that is worth knowing.

It is supposed to be a balancing act between 3 things (given the contagion rate, vulnerable population (absence of vaccine).

1. Managing contagion, using NPI, to keep Rt below 0 given that R0 is around 3.

1. Manage economic damage resulting from contagion measures and spread of virus.

1. Protect health services from being overwhelmed by virus spread if NPIs or supply are insufficient.

At the start, this government fucked up 1 which threatened 3 in the immediate term.

Lockdown was needed to protect 3 but caused damage to 2.

It had a beneficial effect on 1 and 3.

But opening up to benefit 2 has had an adverse effect on 1 and now 3 has once again risen to the fore.

So to address 1 and the impact on 3, 2 will be sacrificed.

Clear?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Some schools were great but as evidenced by lots and lots of threads some schools did nothing at all remote learning wise.

So for some, furloughed teachers would be exactly the same service they recieved last time.

Lots and lots of threads with the same few posters posting....

This is speculation. It may be that most infection comes from socialising with colleagues at work or just after.

Do teachers not have colleagues? And you say I’m speculating!

So, essentially when it came to the delivery of learning right now given the circumstances and so the protection of the mental health and future prospects of young people, it was necessary to plan how to ensure delivery in a situation where infection rates were high and the health service was at threat of overwhelm in case infection rates were not low and there was no vaccine.

We are now in a situation where infection rates are not low, there is no vaccine and the health service risks being overwhelmed.

Don't be obstinate, be resilient.

Someone working in a half empty, socially distanced well-ventilated office faces less risk than a teacher in a classroom with hundreds of different kids breathing on them

There are many professions that will face hundreds of different people... or actually infected people... think about the covid-19 test sites or supermarkets...
I think you need to look for a new profession if you feel threatened - gardening springs to mind! It's outdoors, just avoid the jam packed parks when the sun is out!

@Ylvamoon

Someone working in a half empty, socially distanced well-ventilated office faces less risk than a teacher in a classroom with hundreds of different kids breathing on them

There are many professions that will face hundreds of different people... or actually infected people... think about the covid-19 test sites or supermarkets...
I think you need to look for a new profession if you feel threatened - gardening springs to mind! It's outdoors, just avoid the jam packed parks when the sun is out!

In both of the situations you mention, the staff wear PPE.

Do teachers not have colleagues? And you say I’m speculating!

I think you are just arguing for the sake of it. The point being made was about whether teachers are at more risk than other professions. I then mentioned that infection from colleagues when socialising may be the main source. Your reply doesn't further the conversation.

think about the covid-19 test sites or supermarkets...

Covid test sites with medical grade PPE and strict protocols or supermarkets with mandatory face coverings, plastic screens and generally short interactions?

Is being in a poorly ventilated crowded classroom with no masks on supposed to be better?