Two week circuit breaker - who's in favour?

[zafferana]

Keir Starmer is in favour - so are you?

If they did it over the next two weeks I actually wouldn't mind that much, as it's half term.

Same size, so that's Greece and Finland out.

Democracy, so that's China out.

Same hemisphere, so that's Australia out.

Not in Asia, because they are used to mask wearing, so that's South Korea and Japan out.

Germany are seeing a new spike, so that's that.

And so on.

Comparing apples and oranges isn't very helpful.

Truth is, Europe is seeing a new spike in cases, not just the UK.

I'd be all for it if we had a track and trace system that worked but we don't so it would make precious little difference in the long run.

Our major problem is that we have a government who have fucked up every step of the way and then just when it looked like they might get things right we find out that they paid £12 billion for a track and trace system that uses an excel fucking spreadsheet rather than a database which is beyond mental. Meanwhile, in Ireland, their track and trace system cost less than a million and it works.

Basically, we are fucked.

But Germany and Italy are not seeing spikes anything as big as ours. And is there something about people in se asia that makes mask wearing possible there whilst it's not here? No.

The fact is, we've fucked up.

Let’s keep fucking the working classes up the arse so that the middle classes and baby boomers can sit at home.

We don't have Track and Trace because they have no teeth. They have no powers to do anything, so when they call you don't even have to talk to them and they spend their time apologising to you.

We are far too wet.

I used to work in a power station. All the staff could stay at home and it could, er, well, break or blow up most likely. Who needs electricity, eh? We can rebuild it if it blows up: clean up will be easy after it has burned to the ground because the fire service is furloughed, the water is off because that went bang too and anyway somebody robbed the fire engines what with the police and security guards being furloughed.

Total lockdown is an impossible fantasy held by "above stairs" people who act like the world is operated by legions of Dobby-like non-people below stairs. Who also ignore the existence of prostitutes, drug addicts, alcoholics and criminals amongst other undesirables who won't be sitting at home nicely.

Germany and Italy have competent T and T systems, support to self isolate, a longer furlough scheme and masks are handed out free.

Well I dont think power station staff all stayed home during the first lockdown so I dont see why they would be presumed to during a second.

@IheartNiles

Let’s keep fucking the working classes up the arse so that the middle classes and baby boomers can sit at home.

You don't speak for the entire working class

@IheartNiles

Let’s keep fucking the working classes up the arse so that the middle classes and baby boomers can sit at home.

Yes. And the self-employed.

Those flagging up Italy as not having a resurgence in cases, they had 5,000 cases yesterday and are now in discussions about national restrictions.

I don't really get what it would achieve? When we had the first lockdown, experts all said that all it would do is reset the pandemic, if we end the lockdown and go back to normal life, the exponential increase would just restart. And lo and behold, they were right.

There were some good articles about how coming out of the lockdown with mask-wearing, social distancing and good Test and Tracing would probably work because it would keep the R0 down. But seems like the government and/or the public failed on that.

So what's the point of another lockdown now then? It would just do the same thing, wouldn't it? Reset the rise, only for it to restart again in a few weeks time.

As long as everyone complied ... then reluctantly yes.

.... but they won’t, will they? .....

We’ll still get the “no-one is stopping ME from seeing my mum/kids/granny brigade” ....

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Same size, so that's Greece and Finland out.

Democracy, so that's China out.

Same hemisphere, so that's Australia out.

Not in Asia, because they are used to mask wearing, so that's South Korea and Japan out.

Germany are seeing a new spike, so that's that.

And so on.

Comparing apples and oranges isn't very helpful.

Every other country can be discounted if you wish to do that.

Lots of countries have handled things much better than the UK and there is much to learn.

Surely it wouldn't work.

Kid 1 is asymptotic on day 1-7. Parent 2 gets it on day 9. Parent 1 gets it on day 19. 2 weeks isn't enough for it to burn through the households. It needs 4-6 weeks.

I didn't send my kid to school as a keyworker child last time as I felt the NHS deserved it more.

This time, although the NHS deserve it I cannot, cannot repeat 5 months of homeschooling whilst producing food for this country. I think there would be a lot like me.

The government have fucked up big time. I don't know how we solve it though.

A two week circuit breaker suggests that a) people will comply and b) we will have a competent system to keep the levels low afterwards.

The Government flushed away their trust levels in March after Cummings jaunt to Durham. After hearing how Dido was appointed to track and trace, I have no confidence that will be fixed, either.

Never mind - we have the delights of Brexit still to come, in January. At least it will be a handy distraction from infection data.

[quote GameSetMatch]@Waxonwaxoff0 schools will still be open Kier was adamant.[/quote]
Keir can be "adamant" all he likes, but he's not the one making the decisions.

Every other country can be discounted if you wish to do that

Well spotted.

That's the point, isn't it? Every county have their own challenges and their own path in this.

Oh God, @TheABC. I am sorry to say I think you are right about bastarding Brexit.

@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo

I can’t support it, until they put a proper financial support package in place. I volunteer at a food bank. We’re seeing increased demand every week. We have parents in tears because they can’t feed their children. It’s easy to say lockdown when you’re not having to queue for a food parcel for your family. The people who I’m seeing wish their primary concerns were what would happen if they had an accident and the hospitals were full. They can’t worry about anything except the fact their children are about lose the roof over their heads. I’ve said before, but safe doesn’t just mean free from the virus. Not having Covid-19 means a lot less, when you can’t afford to turn your heating on.

I also think people are massively underestimating the people who HAVE to go to work. I’m a prison officer, there are over 23,000 of us. We can’t work from home, distancing is at times impossible, many of the people in our households are also in essential jobs. Unfortunately this is a transmission risk. My Mam’s partner services and repairs ambulances. He needed to be at work (he can’t always work alone) During the first lockdown my car broke down, thank god the AA and the garage that did the repairs were open or i (and many others) couldn’t have gone to work. We had a pipe burst round the corner from us. There was a team of workers came to fix it. They also HAVE to work. My grandmothers boiler packed in at the very end of March, thank goodness for the gas engineer who was still working. Or are people actually suggesting that we should have let the water continue to pour down the street, and leave an already vulnerable woman with no heating and hot water for the better part of 3 months?

But surely a solid lockdown every two weeks with paid time for those that have to be off is more doable than weeks of uncertainties?

I would also reduced public sector pay. Teachers get paid for two days to get a load of online resources done and that’s it’s. No work for them and 10 days pay, back to the public purse. Private sector have to lose pay so can we. Unpopular but there you go. In my circle teachers saved money on petrol and lifestyle.

If you knew it was only two weeks before it all went back to masks, social distancing and small groups it woukd be fine. The trouble is the uncertainty. Business can’t cope.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Every other country can be discounted if you wish to do that

Well spotted.

That's the point, isn't it? Every county have their own challenges and their own path in this.

My view is it is foolish to discount every country, but plenty do it.

Devi Sridhar said it sometimes feels that the government have looked at other countries who have got a grip and thought 'we don't want that'.

All countries have the same challenge really. Variations on a theme.

Lockdowns are a middle class indulgence for those that can wfh and are well off. In the real world there is economic devastation happening around us.

We were told the first lockdown had to be carefully timed so people didn’t get fed up if it went on too long. Now lockdowns are being bandied around as a daily threat.

People have had enough. Compliance with guidance is waning because trust with the government and experts has eroded. No strategy, money pissed up the wall on track and trace, industries screwed over, eat out then shut pubs on a whim. A new approach is needed and fast. No lockdown enacted now will work.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Same size, so that's Greece and Finland out.

Democracy, so that's China out.

Same hemisphere, so that's Australia out.

Not in Asia, because they are used to mask wearing, so that's South Korea and Japan out.

Germany are seeing a new spike, so that's that.

And so on.

Comparing apples and oranges isn't very helpful.

Getting a bit like that Monty Python 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' sketch, isn't it?

"Yes but apart from Germany, Norway, China, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia, Thailand, Singapore, Tanzania, Finland, Hong Kong..."