New guidance just published on Clinically Extremely Vulnerable

[Goldistheanswer]

I’ve just read the guidance and it seems that there will be no shielding apart from in very small (high risk) areas and only for short periods of time.

@obscureone

I think the Gov are saying "make your own decisions, you are on your own"

Yes - they’ve given up all pretence of helping us.

@Cupcakegirl13

I don’t understand why people on here need to be told what to do ?!!!! Just make safe decisions based on your local rates of infection and common sense ? The government can’t possibly fund shielded people indefinitely , which is sad and hard for many people but it’s the truth .

It’s not that people necessarily need to be told what to do but that their employers do.

@IrmaFayLear

Heartily agree, WanderingMilly.

With no vaccine in sight, it is not possible to finance people to stay indoors... not to mention their household members. There might never be a vaccine. It’s a bugger, but there it is.

So you’re not happy to find ECV people who can’t work from home but you are happy to pay furlough money to millions.

[quote Ecosse]@SheepandCow

To be frank, post viral syndrome, unpleasant as it may be for some people (a very small number IMO) is just not a reason to shut down society and keep everyone at home.[/quote]
Post viral fatigue is one of several different types of Long Covid so far identified. Others include heart, lung, and kidney damage. It's also been found to trigger type 1 diabetes in children and adults, and it's causing blood clotting issues.

Btw the type of post viral fatigue that Long Covid seems to be causing will impact on the economy, if Covid continues to run unchecked. The experts estimate it's so far affecting 10% of the population. That's potentially a significant proportion of the working age population unable to work for months (possibly long-term).

One of the reasons perhaps why Long Covid has been so quickly recognised by governments around the world is that it's affected rather a lot of doctors. I posted a link on another thread where you were denying Long Covid. The link was an article in the BMJ written by a group of doctors who've been unable to work for months because of developing disabling Long Covid.

And really, it's obvious it's an issue...as if the UK government would be splashing out cash to set up treatment clinics for a condition that affects only 'a very small number' of people!

The people who were previously shielding are being hung out to dry I see.

No legal protection, no help, and a government that doesn't even seem to be trying to get the virus under control.

It's almost as if the government want the hospitals to be full.

Massive death toll here we come.

Don’t be silly. The reason vulnerable people and the elderly were asked to shield/stay in is so that they didn’t monopolise hospital beds.

As a shielder, I recognised that. I’m not this special person who must be saved at all costs.

This virus is now rampant and there is no vaccine , so other than exercising as much caution as you can, what can be done? Keep paying someone forever to stay at home? Food boxes for ever ? Someone’s dcs staying at home until they are middle-aged and never educated or meeting anyone themselves?

Because that is what shielding for all time when there’s no vaccine looks like.

@IrmaFayLear
Forever?
Not really. The alternative option is to do what other countries have done. Take effective action to contain Covid.

Strict but ultimately shorter (because it's effective) lockdown - WITH restricted borders (proper quarantine for essential travel like imports). Ease out of lockdown with a functioning test, track, and trace system.

We know that the countries who've chosen the short-term pain, long-term gain option of containing Covid all now have healthier economies than us.

@EmmaBrightside

I don't know what to do. I'm supposed to be returning to work from furlough soon but I don't feel safe. I am considering stopping taking my immune supressant medication because I need to keep the wage, though I may be on the verge of being made redundant anyway. I absolutely hate this situation and the Government.

I don't know what your conditions are but I take immunosuppressants and actually those meds did not put me in the shielding group (it did initially but then my specialities changed their guidance on a global basis). What DOES put me in the sheilding group is my autoimmune disease is flaring. So I don't know what you take or for what but certainly from my point of view taking the immunosuppressants is less risk covid wise than the flare. Unfortunately I'm both taking them and flaring but I'm not shielding anyway.

Just wanted to point this out if in any way it may apply to you.

We are not the same as other countries. Where is this mythical land that is Covid-free and operating as normal?

If you mean New Zealand, then that would entail no travel in and out, no holidays... which is do-able... but also no food.

@IrmaFayLear

We are not the same as other countries. Where is this mythical land that is Covid-free and operating as normal?

If you mean New Zealand, then that would entail no travel in and out, no holidays... which is do-able... but also no food.

New Zealand is importing food. As is the Isle of Man. They have proper quarantine where necessary (no heading off from the airport on busy public transport...).

I didn't say eliminate in any case. Of course we could have if we'd wanted to, but clearly we're too much of whingeing poms to have ever gone down that route. We're very good at saying 'we can't, we can't, we can't', whereas other countries are good at just getting on taking effective action.

Separate from elimination, there's containment. Quite a few countries are doing this.

A functioning test, track, and trace system would be a start. A very good one. Restricted borders is another. Note, I said 'restricted' - which is not the same as closed. Nowhere in the world has completely closed their borders.

@IrmaFayLear

We are not the same as other countries. Where is this mythical land that is Covid-free and operating as normal?

If you mean New Zealand, then that would entail no travel in and out, no holidays... which is do-able... but also no food.

Also, no holidays...but everything else open as normal. Schools, hospitals, offices, shops, bars, pubs, restaurants, gyms, sporting and entertainment venues. All running normally.

It's the same in Australia (where my family live). Even Melbourne is getting under control and starting to open up (and it will fully back to normal months and months and months before we can even dream about it).

Nothing mythical about it. It's simply a case of rolling up their sleeves, no whingeing, and doing what needs to be done in order to save the longer term economy and get back to normality. Short-term pain, long-term gain. Us, on the other hand, we'll remain in this shit dragged out position for another year.

@IrmaFayLear

We are not the same as other countries. Where is this mythical land that is Covid-free and operating as normal?

If you mean New Zealand, then that would entail no travel in and out, no holidays... which is do-able... but also no food.

There are loads of them. You'd have to be wilfully ignorant not to have heard about them.

There are several data sites publishing figures you could look at.

The biggest is China bit that tends to set the maniacs off. The one that is most comparable to the U.K. us probably South Korea because they have similar coffee shop, night club consumer driven society, a similar population size and comparably large cities.

They have continued to live their lives as usual, with masks and Test and Trace. They go to school, work, university, shopping, clubbing, all of it.

We could've been South Korea and thousands of our grandparents wouldn't be about to die.

I’m with @IrmaFayLear. People do have to use their common sense. For those who are ECV and working in a very high risk environment, there needs to be a discussion with their employer and suitable employment protection. I don’t see why this requires re-introduction of shielding, especially in groups where we now know the risk is much smaller than thought. Also, one needs to be reasonable as to how far it extends. I can’t see how on earth this country can afford for my partner to be paid to stay at home purely because I am ECV and he does a job with very high covid exposure.

So school, high risk area, a number of ECV staff....then what...school closes?

For those who are ECV and working in a very high risk environment, there needs to be a discussion with their employer and suitable employment protection

But the government isn’t supporting this so people in this situation have a choice of risking their lives or losing their jobs.

@ForthPlace

So school, high risk area, a number of ECV staff....then what...school closes?

What else can they do when the staff are off sick?

@Egghead68

For those who are ECV and working in a very high risk environment, there needs to be a discussion with their employer and suitable employment protection

But the government isn’t supporting this so people in this situation have a choice of risking their lives or losing their jobs.

Initially, people should be speaking to their employers and requesting reasonable adjustments. I appreciate I am fortunate to have to a good employer but the first thing I did when shielding was paused, was to meet with my manager.

• ForthPlace So school, high risk area, a number of ECV staff....then what...school closes?  What else can they do when the staff are off sick?*

I know, I work with schools, I have loads already with full and part closures....just some people on here seem to think that because Boris has said schools won't shut and because posters shout loud enough on here, it just won't happen.
Of course it will, no adults, no school.

You are lucky to have an employer who can make reasonable adjustments @Haenow. Where this is not possible people are stuck between a rock and a hard place without government support.

@Egghead68

You are lucky to have an employer who can make reasonable adjustments *@Haenow*. Where this is not possible people are stuck between a rock and a hard place without government support.

Absolutely and I did acknowledge I am lucky. However, reasonably, once the shielding list has been revised (if this does go ahead), hopefully there won’t be too many shielding people in high risk professions. I think it’s not as big a number as some people think. I’m talking about jobs where there is considerable risk and where it’s difficult or impossible to be covid secure e.g. primary schools and hospitals.

@Haenow you're kidding right? Not many vulnerable people in high risk jobs? Being high risk isn't just limited to being 80+ .... There are a LOT of us working in schools. I work in a few schools and there are a large number of staff in each that are vulnerable myself included. Please don't delude yourself thinking that this isn't as bad as it actually is

@Haenow hopefully there won’t be too many shielding people in high risk professions well I am one (NHS). There are plenty of us. What do you propose we do if we are unable to work from home?

[quote Egghead68]**@Haenow* hopefully there won’t be too many shielding people in high risk professions* well I am one (NHS). There are plenty of us. What do you propose we do if we are unable to work from home?[/quote]
Throw us to the wolves hey. I think that's the general consensus about us. It's ridiculous.

@OpheliasCrayon and @Egghead68

I clearly said there should be support targeted to those specific people. Out of the approx 4.5 million shielding people, the financial support should be for those who cannot work because their work place isn’t covid secure. I’ve said that more than once. I think it was approx 2 million in the shielding group who are of working age and some are people will be able to fortunate enough work from home.

Of course there are individual cases and these people should be taken care of. But the vast majority of shielders did not work prior to lockdown- I think 70%.

Of the remaining group, many will be able to work from home so it would certainly be possible to pay the wages of the remainder. I’d start it from Monday.