Anti Lockdown Thread/Lockdown Sceptic Thread

[SussexDeb]

I am hoping to start a thread for those of us out there who don’t want or believe lockdowns are the solution to the pandemic.

I am one of many people who think the harm lockdowns do massively outweigh the benefits we get from them. This is both on the impact on society and the economy.

I wanted to make a thread for those of us who do not want a second lockdown and wish for different strategies to manage the pandemic such as Herd Immunity and protecting the vulnerable.

I also want this to be a non judgemental thread. Where those of us against the lockdowns can vent without being called selfish or a ‘granny killer’ or any of the other names used for those of us who question the narrative.

I'm against the lockdowns. I think we need to either go into full lockdown as we did in the beginning of the year and restrict everything wholeheartedly so we can get this under control or not bother. Local lockdowns have been shown to not work for the most part and the rules for hospitality remaining open while simultaneously being strangled will leave a much worse world when we finally begin to return to 'normality'.

I'm in Wales and two of my friends own pubs and one owns a leisure type activity business. We're in local lockdown areas and they're around two months from total bankruptcy after everything that's happened. If they are forced to close entirely they could get through but while they remain open but on limited hours, it's a job to get the staff paid and the stock in without going under. They've all come up with brilliant ways to get by until now but this seems vast and endless.

Do you only want people here who agree with you, or do you want a civilised, rational, evidence-based discussion without people throwing cheap insults?

Long list of wants there.

I'm not against being locked down, I guess. I'm against the suffering of local businesses and mental health while doing so. It's insane to me that my 80 year old grandfather can bubble up with my father and his wife who both work full time outside of the home but he can't see me, my husband or my children who are home 98% of the time and rarely see others. I miss him so much. He's basically a father to me and with health conditions and him being 80, we all miss seeing him as often as we used to. We speak on the phone daily but it's not the same as having him cradling a cup of tea on the sofa.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Of course you can post why your in favour of lockdowns here.

I just wanted a thread where those of us not in favour of the measures can feel free to share their opinions.

I am absolutely against any further lockdowns. Only this morning I’ve seen statements from the NSPCC about the huge increase in child abuse calls over lockdown and my local police about ballooning domestic violence cases and an increase in severity of incidents.

COVID is not the only harm out there and we cannot afford to devastate our economy and society again with another lockdown.

DH was talking to a GP friend who is very concerned about the impact of restrictions on their patients. A lot more of their patients are being admitted due to falls etc because their mobility has been badly impacted by staying at home. Also a lot of patients who are normally largely housebound because they aren't getting social contact and zoom and phone calls aren't adequate substitutes for family visits and day centres. GP friend reckons a lot more lives will be shortened by these factors than by Covid.

I'm against a National lockdown - at least for the moment. I think the local restrictions in highly affected areas is really the only tool available just now.

I think I'm in agreement, protect the vulnerable but the rest of us should be able to carry on being able to go about things as normal (just with a mask, social distancing and attending covid secure places)
That way, the vulnerable can make their own decisions about risks. The government could support the vulnerable financially meaning everyone else can continue working. There is going to be a huge unemployment surge in 6 months. So many businesses closed down. I really worry.
I don't want to 'single' out the vulnerable but at the moment everyone is unhappy and so many people are stressed to their eyeballs financially. Something else needs to happen.

How does “protecting the vulnerable” work in your scenario OP?

How do you protect only the vulnerable? What about those who care for or live with or treat the vulnerable? Do we protect them? What about the people who live with, service, socialise with them?

Do we just lock vulnerable people away, denying them care, company, medical treatment, food, etc?

100 per cent with you OP. Brave thread (but just wait for the abuse to start).

Also, how are you defining “vulnerable?”

The elderly?
People who have serious medical conditions?
Obese people?
BAME people?
Men?
Your granny?

Count me among your number 👍

"I wanted to make a thread for those of us who do not want a second lockdown and wish for different strategies to manage the pandemic such as Herd Immunity and protecting the vulnerable."

Nobody wants a second national lockdown and the strategy of 'herd immunity while protecting the vulnerable' is very much a fringe/extreme view amongst infectious disease experts, so you are presenting a false choice between two extremes.

Come off it @puppymonkey. Men are not at significantly higher risk of COVID.

It is very clear what the predominant risk factors are and they are 1. Age and 2. Health conditions.

The vast majority of shielders last time were over the age of 65.

I am not in favour of continual lockdowns, but they are now inevitable.

I was in favour of fully locking down earlier than we did, and getting a decent system of testing and contact tracing up and running before a gradual re-opening.
I believe social distancing, good hygeine, the wearing of masks and as much being done outside as possible alongside a quick, efficient and readily available system of testing, contact tracing and isolating where everyone abides by the rules....should have and would have made a huge difference whilst we wait for a vaccine.
The government fucked up on this on a mammoth scale...leaving us in the shite we are in now.

I think herd immunity, focused protections, Great Barrington Declarations or 'protecting the vulnerable' is a nice lie to tell ourselves that it is possible for 'most if us' to get back to some sort of normality, whilst segregating those who have been deemed vulnerable. It is a completely flawed concept.

The huge flaws in this are

• no one can agree on who the vulnerable are
• the highest numbers of deaths in the 'first wave' were the moderately vulnerable..not the extremely clinically vulnerable.
• 'the vulnerable' are part of society, and live and work with everyone else, go to school, go to hospital...are us.
• death isnt the only negative outcome of Covid - we need to learn more about the myriad ways it affects people long term from PIMS to the various consequences being seen in long covid.

I'll get my coat.

I am completely against a full national lockdown. The first one did nothing except kick the can down the road.

I don't mind local restrictions so long as they make some vague semblance of sense, unlike the 10pm closing which is crazy. The annoying thing about that is that they copied the idea from Belgium, where it appeared to work but they did not copy the whole idea. Belgium, as well as imposing a closing time also imposed a curfew, so nobody could then go on to house parties or drinking in the park or whatever. Sending us all to bed early is just infantilising the entire nation and is insulting.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

100 per cent with you OP. Brave thread (but just wait for the abuse to start).

It's not abuse to disagree.

What HazeyJaneII said.

Okay was being facetious about men... But my original point stands. What does "protecting the vulnerable" actually mean?

The problem is we didn't have a lockdown, just a bit of a stay in
If a lockdown was to work it should have been more severe.
It hasn't worked so we should just get on with it now.

I agree with both lockdown-ish and no lockdown.

The arguments on both sides are valid.

But it seems the government are following the advice that tries to not overwhelm hospitals.

Just taking life one day at a time now.

I don't want a full lock down but the news today says there are now more people in hospital with covid that before the first lock down so what do we do....just let people die?
I don't know the answer but advisors are really worried that infections originally started in younger people have now spread to older age groups....BBC is not good watching tiday

Lockdown didn't work first time round... it won't work now.
This virus has to run it's cause... like all the others before.