The rate of infections in schools is being suppressed from public knowledge

[noblegiraffe]

...claims Karam Bales of the NEU.

I’m pretty sure I agree. When the newspapers are going mad about university cases and 13,000 kids and 700 teachers being off school in Birmingham doesn’t make national headlines, then something dodgy is going on.

This twitter thread collates all the evidence and is pretty damning twitter.com/karamballes/status/1315067136394625032?s=21

My own thoughts:
Why are the government ignoring the WHO recommendations on masks?
Why have they stopped PHE deciding who is sent home when there are cases in schools setting up their own helpline instead which sends home far fewer kids?
Why are the figures not being presented in a way that makes it clear which cases are in schools and not universities?
Why did Chris Whitty use a graph of test positivity rates instead of actual infection numbers in his briefing when it came to claiming that schools aren’t an issue?
Why are they insisting that children only get a test if they exhibit one of the three main adult symptoms, ignoring that the majority of children who test positive don’t have any of them?
Why are they insisting on vulnerable children being sent in with the threat of fines for non-attendance?
Why did they spend the summer pretending that unions were blocking the re-opening of schools and then paying social media influencers to say schools are safe, without taking any steps to ensure that they are?
Why did they announce a Plan B of rotas for schools in tiers of lockdown and then never actually use it?
Why did they say that an effective test and trace system was vital to opening schools and then also say they were surprised when demand increased when schools opened?
Why do they keep saying schools are a priority and that be the only thing they say about keeping them open?

And where the fuck is Gavin Williamson?

Yes, but in Germany, clinically vulnerable staff are not expected to be in classrooms, and nor are children.

@herecomesthsun

Childcare is not an insult though. It's a fact that parents struggle to work effectively if children are home and it is a major part of this equation, as so many families have both parents working.

I agree it’s an important issue which is why I loathe the school is not childcare line. For that reason and because school should be and is usually education.

But it was off topic.

The precious line gets people’s backs up. It doesn’t help and attacks would likely decrease if it went.

By the way, you can report personal attacks to the admins, using the "report" button at the top of the relevant post.

Thank you herecomesthsun.

@MarshaBradyo

Not off topic at all , it was in response to "what is the reason from the government point of view? " - which I quoted.

The childcare issue is a massive part of their thinking, I am sure.

I was being succinct.

Myself, I care enormously about my children's education. I am a higher rate tax payer who has never voted Conservative. I choose who to vote for, in large part by how likely they are to support education (and also health).

I think we should have resourced schools properly and made them safe, and *then" reopened them. We would have had a much better chance of keeping them open and our children's educational experience would be improved.

Why are people worrying about schools? Children and teachers are all fine aren’t they? Cases of child or teacher hospitalisation aren’t going up are they? Has anyone heard of this either officially or anecdotally? I certainly haven’t and I am in a area of high vases.

Given the above, what else do you propose? Closing schools indefinitely for years until enough of this possible (but not definite) vaccine is produced to ensure all age groups have been vaccinated? This will take years upon years if even it ever happens. It seems very strange arguing for children, their education, happiness and wellbeing to be thrown under a bus. They are vulnerable and dependent, just not to covid. Covid is not the only thing that matters. Instead can’t people turn their energies to focussing on how to protect the vulnerable, eg care homes?

And don’t go on about any vulnerable teachers. They need to be protected on a case by case basis, and should not be put at risk. But this has to be looked at on the macro scale. A whole generation’s education and wellbeing can’t be cancelled on that basis. And there’s nothing short term about covid. So it would be long term.

I do however agree that vulnerable teachers should have the option to stay out of work. And vulnerable parents should have the option to home educate temporarily without losing school places. But in general, it is immoral to close schools when children are t at risk, and many staff aren’t either.

Here I meant my reference to another irritating line was off topic. As no one had said it yet on this thread.

Personally I think the 'precious' line is often used to refer to how parents view their own children, not how a poster views the children.

@noblegiraffe

UsForThem co-chair Christine Brett, from Cambridge, said banning singing is one of the many detrimental measures being taken at schools

Fucksake. Replace ‘detrimental measures’ with ‘safety measures’ you bunch of self-obsessed whiners.

They are still doing singing at my DC's school.

And to be specific I mean the ‘school is not childcare’ line that often gets glibly mentioned. Thankfully it seems to be reducing in frequency.

I agree completely. Several cases in my school, none reported in the local media. I know it's the same or similar for other schools. Ones got one case reported in the media but there's been at least five. Medically vulnerable and paused shielding teachers protected by nothing more than a 2m gap in a poorly ventilated room, if that. We don't have space for 2m in some classrooms

@Ouchy

, what else do you propose?

proper safety measures.

I won't repeat my previous posts (in case I bore everybody else ) by I have listed a few elsewhere

In all the time my kids have been at school I've only ever met one teacher who wasn't absolutely excellent, who spent their own money on extras for the kids because the school budget didn't allow it. Teachers in this country don't go into this profession for selfish reasons, you don't make a fortune and it's hard work.

There are teachers here who want schools to be better and safer and they are being criticised for that.

When compared to any other country in Europe our government is spending and doing less to make schools safe.

MPs have their kids in private schools - look at what their kids are getting - testing every 2 weeks for all kids at Eton. Small class sizes.

Why don't people want the best for their kids? Why are they putting up with massive crowding during a pandemic, no mitigation, no fast or comprehensive testing, and then trying to pretend this awful situation is going to deliver a good education - it won't.

I'd be happy to have noble as my kids teacher. I hope they always get teachers who care about them as much.

But actually, I hope teachers start to quit / strike / protect themselves - they are in the ONLY workplace that has ZERO mitigation against coronavirus transmission. As community levels increase, the viral load they will be exposed to will increase. Viral load is directly linked to mortality - the more virus you're exposed to the iller you get. www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext

Do you remember when they were saying that NHS staff not working with confirmed covid cases didn't need PPE? That didn't go so well did it? When community cases are high, risk of encountering an asymptomatic spreader is high. Teachers need protections, masks at least.

I want the experienced teachers to still be there at the end of the pandemic. Ones who through years of experience are at the top of their game, who know how best to help all different kinds of pupils.

Recently learned that one of the most experienced, older teachers at DDs school has quit. I think this is the start, and who can blame her.

@herecomesthsun I’ve had a look back at your previous message listing how better safety measures could be financed by the government. Now I’m not going to argue with the notion that this self-serving Tory government needs to fund state education more including in terms of safety measures at present! Especially if said funding avoids placing additional demands on already overstretched teachers having to pick up the extra cleaning duties.

It’s not really an accurate comparison because the numbers being discussed in relation to universities are actual cases. There are not 13,000 cases in schools in Birmingham, there are 13,000 children off school because they may have been in contact with a much smaller number of cases. Doesn’t mean it’s not a serious issue, but it isn’t the same.

@IloveJKRowling

In all the time my kids have been at school I've only ever met one teacher who wasn't absolutely excellent, who spent their own money on extras for the kids because the school budget didn't allow it. Teachers in this country don't go into this profession for selfish reasons, you don't make a fortune and it's hard work.

There are teachers here who want schools to be better and safer and they are being criticised for that.

When compared to any other country in Europe our government is spending and doing less to make schools safe.

MPs have their kids in private schools - look at what their kids are getting - testing every 2 weeks for all kids at Eton. Small class sizes.

Why don't people want the best for their kids? Why are they putting up with massive crowding during a pandemic, no mitigation, no fast or comprehensive testing, and then trying to pretend this awful situation is going to deliver a good education - it won't.

I'd be happy to have noble as my kids teacher. I hope they always get teachers who care about them as much.

But actually, I hope teachers start to quit / strike / protect themselves - they are in the ONLY workplace that has ZERO mitigation against coronavirus transmission. As community levels increase, the viral load they will be exposed to will increase. Viral load is directly linked to mortality - the more virus you're exposed to the iller you get. www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30354-4/fulltext

Do you remember when they were saying that NHS staff not working with confirmed covid cases didn't need PPE? That didn't go so well did it? When community cases are high, risk of encountering an asymptomatic spreader is high. Teachers need protections, masks at least.

I want the experienced teachers to still be there at the end of the pandemic. Ones who through years of experience are at the top of their game, who know how best to help all different kinds of pupils.

Recently learned that one of the most experienced, older teachers at DDs school has quit. I think this is the start, and who can blame her.

Great post, and speaking as a teacher, thank you for your support

what else do you propose?

Well, let's look at what the WHO recommends for safe school opening. www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19

TL:DR - we have basically none of this in UK schools. And let's not forget this is advice for the entire world, including developing countries where there are less resources to make changes. Pretty sad we're not even managing any of this.

Here's a cut and paste of the relevant bit from the WHO - note that pretty much all of the UK has 'community transmission' now i.e. the highest set of measures below.

There are several actions and requirements that should be reviewed and put in place to prevent the introduction and spread of COVID-19 in schools and into the community; and to ensure the safety of children and school staff while at school. Special provisions should be considered for early childhood development, higher learning institutions, residential schools or specialized institutions.

WHO recommends the following:

"Community-level measures: Carry out early detection, testing, contact tracing and quarantine of contacts; investigate clusters; ensure physical distancing, hand and hygiene practices and age-appropriate mask use; shield vulnerable groups. Community-led initiatives such as addressing misleading rumors also play an important role in reducing the risk of infection.

Policy, practice and infrastructure: Ensure the necessary resources, policies and infrastructure, are in place that protect the health and safety of all school personnel, including people at higher risk.

Behavioral aspects: Consider the age and capacity of students to understand and respect measures put in place. Younger children may find it more difficult to adhere to physical distancing or the appropriate use of masks.

Safety and security: School closure or re-opening may affect the safety and security of students and the most vulnerable children may require special attention, such as during pick-up and drop-off.

Hygiene and daily practices at the school and classroom level: Physical distancing of at least 1 metre between individuals including spacing of desks, frequent hand and respiratory hygiene, age-appropriate mask use, ventilation and environmental cleaning measures should be in place to limit exposure. Schools should educate staff and students on COVID-19 prevention measures, develop a schedule for daily cleaning and disinfection of the school environment, facilities and frequently touches surfaces, and ensure availability of hand hygiene facilities and national/local guidance on the use of masks.

Screening and care of sick students, teachers and other school staff: Schools should enforce the policy of “staying home if unwell”, waive the requirement for a doctor’s note, create a checklist for parents/students/staff to decide whether to go to school (taking into consideration the local situation), ensure students who have been in contact with a COVID-19 case stay home for 14 days, and consider options for screening on arrival.

Protection of individuals at high-risk: Schools should identify students and teachers at high-risk with pre-existing medical conditions to come up with strategies to keep them safe; maintain physical distancing and se of medical masks as well as frequent hand hygiene and respiratory etiquette.

Communication with parents and students: Schools should keep students and parents informed about the measures being implemented to ensure their collaboration and support.

Additional school-related measures such as immunization checks and catch-up vaccination programmes: Ensure continuity or expansion of essential services, including school feeding and mental health and psycho-social support.

Physical distancing outside classrooms: Maintain a distance of at least 1 metre for both students (all age groups) and staff, where feasible.

Physical distancing inside classrooms:

In areas with community transmission of COVID-19, maintain a distance of at least 1 metre between all individuals of all age groups, for any schools remaining open. This includes increasing desk spacing and staging recesses, breaks and lunchbreaks; limiting the mixing of classes and of age groups; considering smaller classes or alternating attendance schedules, and ensuring good ventilation in classrooms.

In areas with cluster-transmission of COVID-19, a risk-based approach should be taken when deciding whether to keep a distance of at least 1 metre between students. Staff should always keep at least 1 metre apart from each other and from students and should wear a mask in situations where 1-metre distance is not practical.

In areas with sporadic cases/no cases of COVID-19, children under the age of 12 should not be required to keep physical distance at all times. Where feasible, children aged 12 and over should keep at least 1 metre apart from each other. Staff should always keep at least 1 metre from each other and from students and should wear a mask in situations where 1-metre distance is not practical. Remote learning: Where children cannot attend classes in person, support should be given to ensure students have continued access to educational materials and technologies (internet, texting radio, radio, or television), (e.g. delivering assignments or broadcasting lessons). Shutting down educational facilities should only be considered when no alternatives are available.

@Ouchy

Why are people worrying about schools? Children and teachers are all fine aren’t they? Cases of child or teacher hospitalisation aren’t going up are they? Has anyone heard of this either officially or anecdotally? I certainly haven’t and I am in a area of high vases.

Given the above, what else do you propose? Closing schools indefinitely for years until enough of this possible (but not definite) vaccine is produced to ensure all age groups have been vaccinated? This will take years upon years if even it ever happens. It seems very strange arguing for children, their education, happiness and wellbeing to be thrown under a bus. They are vulnerable and dependent, just not to covid. Covid is not the only thing that matters. Instead can’t people turn their energies to focussing on how to protect the vulnerable, eg care homes?

And don’t go on about any vulnerable teachers. They need to be protected on a case by case basis, and should not be put at risk. But this has to be looked at on the macro scale. A whole generation’s education and wellbeing can’t be cancelled on that basis. And there’s nothing short term about covid. So it would be long term.

I do however agree that vulnerable teachers should have the option to stay out of work. And vulnerable parents should have the option to home educate temporarily without losing school places. But in general, it is immoral to close schools when children are t at risk, and many staff aren’t either.

They drive infections in the community, hence the huge surge since they reopened in September.

They drive infections in the community, hence the huge surge since they reopened in September

Surely that would mean there would be surges around all schools? There aren't.

Secondary schools, as we have seen in the data published in Government dashboard, seem to be the age group that is seeing the most outbreaks. Secondary school have quite large 'catchment' areas, many kids travel by public transport. You wouldn't necessarely see an increase in the neighbouring streets. It's a lot more spread out.

Surely universities have far, far more cases than secondary schools.

We can’t expect children to sacrifice their educations, wellbeing etc because if the government’s abject failure to implement a successful track and trace (and lets be honest, their failure to act decisively and quickly in the first place in terms of test track trace and closing borders). The government have failed in these regards however @IloveJKRowling many of the WHO recommended measures you list are in place in schools.

I know what you mean about educational establishments exacerbating community transmission but this isn’t kids’ fault. They already sacrificed enough in March to September and look what good that did. My parents are vulnerable but they are not so selfish as to argue that children nationwide should go without school in order to protect them. I protect them by seeing them outdoors well wrapped up, going for walks with the children in tow.

University cases are generally transmitted within halls of residence or social contact though, not through the educational setting. There are no or very few actual lectures in classrooms.

Truth is, we don't have the specific data. Because our track and trace is shite. So the outbreaks are by 'educational settings' as a group, and ages are 14-21 year olds which tells us nothing.

Same post, different day!

@notevenat20

Do all of Europe have schools open?

As far as I know, yes. It’s both a short and long term disaster for a country to close its schools.

This is a mute point. Other schools across the world have put measure in place differently from here! It needs to be like for like for comparisons to be made. e.g. No SD, No mask wearing etc.