Pregnant DS and BIL want to fly over to see DPs at Xmas!

[Choux]

Just that. The baby is due in spring so if they don't come on this trip - flights booked months ago but refundable - they probably won't be able to come till next autumn.

My parents are over 80, both in reasonable shape but each with health issues ( heart failure and dementia). They live in an area with extra restrictions and as they are in sheltered type housing they have had no visitors for months (as requested by the unit management) until August when I visited for a family funeral. I got permission to stay with them as a support bubble and stayed quite a while to help them, get some medical appointments done and just see them.

Their plan is to get a test before they leave their country. Then tell UK immigration they are staying with me but stay in a hotel close to me. Then after 3-4 days move to a rented property where everyone me included can spend Christmas. If they can they will get a second test prior to seeing my parents. If pubs and restaurants are open I'm sure they will want to eat / drink out.

I don't want them to risk giving my parents Covid. I don't want them to give my address to immigration when they won't be staying with me. I have tonight sent them links to gov self isolating info and told them not to book anything not refundable as the UK is not in great place with the virus.

I told them there are new restrictions coming in on Monday and to see what they look like. Currently where my parents live mixing of households is not allowed although not sure if it is illegal or just guidance.

Tonight they sounded adamant about coming. Do I just keep sending updates on what it's like here and hope they see sense? The trip is 14 days long so they have no time to self isolate and still see my parents unless the test and end isolation early is set up. Am not sure my parents would tell them not to come or refuse to see them.

I understand the predicament but putting my parents, me and anyone else they come into contact with at risk seems selfish. They say they will be ultra careful because of both my parents and the baby so the risk will be tiny.

I’d ask your parents what they want and let them make their own choices

Considering some rules are now laws, no I'd not be happy for them to give my address for their shenanigans.

They sound a bit naive, do they live somewhere with no problems?

What happens if rentals are shut down again? Or the hotel has to close? Or the care home bans visitors again?

What if immigration contacts you to check they are with you? Are they going to tell the same lie to Test and Trace?

Are they even able to get tests without symptoms?
Currently I have 4 members of staff off as they have been near a confirmed positive, but can't get a test as they have no symptoms.

@Ellmau

They sound a bit naive, do they live somewhere with no problems?

What happens if rentals are shut down again? Or the hotel has to close? Or the care home bans visitors again?

What if immigration contacts you to check they are with you? Are they going to tell the same lie to Test and Trace?

They live in the US but where they are currently has no restrictions and was not particularly badly hit so they see the restrictions as an inconvenience or overrreaction.

I don't think they have thought it through or haven't really read up on what is happening in Europe at the moment.

I'm really hoping my parents' area is Tier 3 next week to help them get the message!

I wouldn't answer the phone while they were supposed to be isolating at my house I certainly wouldn't lie for them.

It's two months away so am hoping they figure out they need to cancel. Otherwise as someone says I will explain to my parents and let them make their own choices. But if my parents want to spend Christmas with them I will be in a difficult situation because I don't want to be part of an illegal Christmas gathering.

@Belle1983

Are they even able to get tests without symptoms? Currently I have 4 members of staff off as they have been near a confirmed positive, but can't get a test as they have no symptoms.

They say they can get a test before leaving home.

In the UK they would get a private test before seeing my parents but it would be only 2-3 days after the flight so they could still be incubating the virus after picking it up on the trip over.

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk/collections/covid-19-pcr-swab-testing

I think you're right to say no to them giving your address that's well dodgy.
Agree with PP about see what your parents prefer. If they would prefer to take the risk so they can see their family I don't think that's an unreasonable choice for them to make. How would everyone involved feel it something happened to them (not corona related) and they hadn't got to see them? Equally don't think it's unreasonable if they would rather not see them because of the risk.

Is this for real? Your pregnant DS & BIL? Do you mean your sister? (I'm just a bit surprised you have a pregnant sister whose parents are in their 80s).

If this is real:
Just tell them that visitors from the US have to isolate for 14 days and, as they are planning to be here for 14 days, there is no point in coming.

Points to consider:

1. Won't they be questioned in arrivals at the airport as they are coming from a country that isn't on the air bridge list?

1. Will the hotel just let people with a US address stay? Don't hotels have to ask for ID to prove immigration status?

1. Why can't you just tell them that you aren't prepared to lie about them staying at yours?

4.Why do you think not answering your telephone, in case it is immigration authorities checking they are there, makes you any less complicit than actually telling the lie itself?

1. If you meet up with them at the rented home, will you be in contravention of the law or rules?

1. Is someone with dementia able to make a considered judgement about putting themself at risk?

1. Why don't you know whether mixing of households where your parents live is law or not? (You could go on their local authority website and find out).

I think you need to be more assertive and tell them straight what the situation is rather than lie or be complicit with others coming in from a country which is considered unsafe in terms of Covid-19.

Are they US citizens or green card holders? If they arent, they wont be able to get back into the US after their holiday.

Then tell UK immigration they are staying with me but stay in a hotel close to me

Most hotels won't have you unless you can provide a negative test result (not older than 48 hrs).

I would strongly want them to properly quarantine for 14 days if they came (and not in my house/giving my address!)

However, I think you need to speak to your parents and get their view. At their age and with their conditions, they may want to take the risk rather than not see their daughter for 18 months/2 years. I can also see why your sister is desperate to see them, it must be such a worry for her.

How is this ‘up to the parents’? At this point, they’d be breaking quarantine rules and it’s illegal. How is this any different to the guy who went to lots of pubs and triggered an increase in Bolton’s infections by failing to self isolate after a holiday? That may well change starting from November when airport testing is introduced and quarantine possibly cut to 7 days...but at this point no, it’s not on.

How is this ‘up to the parents’? At this point, they’d be breaking quarantine rules and it’s illegal.

It's up to their parents if they wish to see them while they're breaking the law though. All the OP can do is give them all the up to date information about the law at the time and let them know she won't be putting them up/ allowing them to give their address/ seeing them. They can't stop her sister from coming, breaking the law and seeing their parents.

The OP can't physically stop them visiting the UK and can't stop her parents seeing them even if it is a massively selfish thing to do.

@Lavendersy

Then tell UK immigration they are staying with me but stay in a hotel close to me

Most hotels won't have you unless you can provide a negative test result (not older than 48 hrs).

Depending on where you are (and if the rules change as I believe England lockdowns are different to Welsh ones)

My daughter works in a hotel in a Welsh local lockdown area - they have been ringing all bookings and asking why they are staying - if they don't confirm it's for business (or other valid reason I imagine) their money is refunded and their stay cancelled - they could get over and find they can't stay at the hotel

@NerrSnerr

How is this ‘up to the parents’? At this point, they’d be breaking quarantine rules and it’s illegal.

It's up to their parents if they wish to see them while they're breaking the law though. All the OP can do is give them all the up to date information about the law at the time and let them know she won't be putting them up/ allowing them to give their address/ seeing them. They can't stop her sister from coming, breaking the law and seeing their parents.

The OP can't physically stop them visiting the UK and can't stop her parents seeing them even if it is a massively selfish thing to do.

Yes I agree that technically, the parents can choose whether or not to see them. What’s bemusing is the suggestion from previous posters that this is the only variable worth considering...This laissez-fairs attitude of ‘meh, everyone can make their own decisions.

They’re going to be staying in a hotel, using things like hospitality if it’s available, going out and about, and are happy to rope OP into their plans. They have no regard for the law and are a risk, not to their parents who are making the decision, but to the person in the restaurant who doesn’t know they’ve been seated next to two holidaymakers. Would people really be OK with this if it was their coworker?

The thread should more appropriately be titled: ‘DS and BiL want to fly in from the US over Christmas and refuse to quarantine’. The parents are one small part of the issue.

They are US citizens now so returning at the end of the trip is not an issue.

I don't answer calls from unknown numbers anyway so in that respect I would be behaving normally. But I don't want to be complicit in this at all.

If they went immediately to a rental property and isolated there at least they would be in the same place for 14 days and not moving from hotel to rental. But self isolation is meant to be not leaving the property at all. I can't see them doing that but if they did then it would be my parents' choice to visit them or not.

The dementia is forgetfulness but they are still able to recognise all family members. He knows there is a virus and he therefore can't go to cafes and restaurants like he used to. He understands to wear a mask whenever he does leave home but may need reminding when he gets to the front door. I think he would understand if explained that he shouldn't see DSis and he and DM could make a joint decision.

I want no part of it but DSis is quite forceful eg "I don't care what the rules are. If we don't come it will be a year before we can come again. If we get caught I will say I broke it because I have a very elderly, sick relative and if I have to pay a fine I will."

The thread should more appropriately be titled: ‘DS and BiL want to fly in from the US over Christmas and refuse to quarantine’. The parents are one small part of the issue.

You are entirely correct. I am worrying about my parents as they are real to me and I care about them. But it's really the general attitude of my sibling to the restrictions we are all facing.

When they enter the U.K. they will have to give mobile numbers, so there is a risk the authorities will know they aren’t staying with you if they track the phones. I think at the very least you need to say no to them using your address. Maybe suggest they rent a self catering place for the whole 2 weeks, it’s probably the safest way.

It's irrelevant at the moment, visitors from USA have 14 day quarantine , they cannot come for 14 days with that itinerary

Not sure what to add to what Redolent has written..bottom line is they are clearly intent on avoiding ("doing an end run"?) around the current UK procedures.....

I'm sure you know this but ATM testing prior to arrival in the UK and/or testing a day or two after arrival in the UK doesn't provide any alleviation from the quarantine period, on arrival they are meant to go immediately to a place of self isolation, stay there, and during that period should not have any visitors - that includes friends and family..etc..etc....except in a few defined circumstances (basically needing emergency support or aid).

I have no idea how you handle this but wish you luck.

@MotherofTerriers

When they enter the U.K. they will have to give mobile numbers, so there is a risk the authorities will know they aren’t staying with you if they track the phones. I think at the very least you need to say no to them using your address. Maybe suggest they rent a self catering place for the whole 2 weeks, it’s probably the safest way.

They said yesterday that the Gov doesn't have the manpower to follow up on quarantine-rs so the risk of being caught is tiny. They are currently willing to take the risk and pay the fine if needed.

The fines need to be bigger. It's not £10k like the rave fine.

I need bigger fines, evidence of a Gov crackdown on making sure people self isolate, my parents area to already be Tier 3 and maybe someone other than just me to tell them it's a bad idea.

Oh actually it is now a £10k fine. Someone needs to update the gov self isolation page which says £1-£3,200.

Will send the below link when the Tier details come out tomorrow.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-54320482

Seems silly that we're letting people come into the UK with a return ticket for 14 days or less later if quarantine is 14 days.

DS and BiL want to fly in from the US over Christmas and refuse to quarantine

Yes, this should be the thread title!

Especially coming from a high risk area!

on arrival they are meant to go immediately to a place of self isolation, stay there, and during that period should not have any visitors - that includes friends and family..etc..etc....except in a few defined circumstances (basically needing emergency support or aid).

This