Pregnant DS and BIL want to fly over to see DPs at Xmas!

[Choux]

Just that. The baby is due in spring so if they don't come on this trip - flights booked months ago but refundable - they probably won't be able to come till next autumn.

My parents are over 80, both in reasonable shape but each with health issues ( heart failure and dementia). They live in an area with extra restrictions and as they are in sheltered type housing they have had no visitors for months (as requested by the unit management) until August when I visited for a family funeral. I got permission to stay with them as a support bubble and stayed quite a while to help them, get some medical appointments done and just see them.

Their plan is to get a test before they leave their country. Then tell UK immigration they are staying with me but stay in a hotel close to me. Then after 3-4 days move to a rented property where everyone me included can spend Christmas. If they can they will get a second test prior to seeing my parents. If pubs and restaurants are open I'm sure they will want to eat / drink out.

I don't want them to risk giving my parents Covid. I don't want them to give my address to immigration when they won't be staying with me. I have tonight sent them links to gov self isolating info and told them not to book anything not refundable as the UK is not in great place with the virus.

I told them there are new restrictions coming in on Monday and to see what they look like. Currently where my parents live mixing of households is not allowed although not sure if it is illegal or just guidance.

Tonight they sounded adamant about coming. Do I just keep sending updates on what it's like here and hope they see sense? The trip is 14 days long so they have no time to self isolate and still see my parents unless the test and end isolation early is set up. Am not sure my parents would tell them not to come or refuse to see them.

I understand the predicament but putting my parents, me and anyone else they come into contact with at risk seems selfish. They say they will be ultra careful because of both my parents and the baby so the risk will be tiny.

OP friends of mine had to isolate after returning from France and they were checked on.
There may not be enough resources for checking everyone now, but that doesn't mean this will still be the case when they come here.
They may be prepared to pay a fine but are you?

I'd appeal to self-interest by sharing the risks to pregnant women of covid. Articles about dead babies and mothers. As an older mother, it might make one of them pause. There could be a vaccine by spring, or numbers will drop anyway with the warm weather, letting them come over safely and show off the baby.

Fines are a good point, also tell them the increased focus on quarantine will target people coming for short trips like they are.

Thank you for trying to sort out your irresponsible sibling. Whatever they do, you aren't accountable for their actions.

I think you may have to put your cards on the table and clearly say you don’t support them visiting right now and a lot of what they’re proposing is actually illegal in the UK right now.

It’s really sad and shit and although I completely understand their desire it’s completely out of order to pressure you into complicity with their plans which are against the law.

These restrictions aren’t in place as some sort of quiz for people to find ways around.

Its looking like an airbridge is going to open up between New York and the UK, so if they fly by that route, they wont have to quarantine. Then you just have to work out the risk factors for who they visit when they arrive. But looking at the UK infection rates per 100,000 compared to a lot of the US, they would be more at risk catching Covid in the UK than bringing it with them

It's your parents choice whether to take the risk of seeing them, not yours, but you can certainly refuse to be involved if you dont approve. I wouldn't say there's any moral obligation on you to facilitate it!

I’ll be interested to see how the New York air bridge might work. New York seem to be taking covid a lot more seriously than other parts of the US. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was actually quite difficult to travel in from another state to use their air bridge.

Don’t forget how hard New York was hit early on. I imagine their keen to limit sources of infection from other areas of the country.

They are being utterly and ludicrously selfish

I'm really hoping my parents' area is Tier 3 next week to help them get the message!

Oh God please don't wish that on anyone. Even in jest.

Are they dual citizens with up to date UK passports? If they just use their US ones they run the risk of being refused entry at the airport.

Your sister and her husband are idiots. Because their government tries to spread the message that CV is nothing to fear, because it suits the political agenda, and they’ve been taken in.

This isn’t about fines and if they can afford them. This is about killing the ones they come to visit. How would your sister feel if she was a symptomless carrier and within a week of her visit both your parents were in ITU fighting for their lives?

They can’t just waltz over and railroad over everyone including the home’s policies. The home has staff who may be vulnerable and patients who will be vulnerable in the home.

They need to follow the guidance or not come at all. You will have a tough fight on your hands trying to convince them. But not as tough as the fight dps will have on their hands if they get the virus.

I understand that your sister probably wants to see her parents as they are elderly. But not like this. It’s not worth it. I’d be telling her that she comes she needs to follow the laws and rules or not come at all. And I’d be having a word with the home about the likelihood of them letting visitors in for Christmas so you can officiallypass the message on to your sister that she will not be admitted and neither will you or anyone else so no point.

I wouldn’t let someone who is not 100% mentally decide if they want to see their child or not. They will want to. Without understanding the risk. Your sister needs to stop being selfish.

Seems silly that we're letting people come into the UK with a return ticket for 14 days or less later if quarantine is 14 days.

There are a sizeable number of quarantine exempt essential workers who legitimately need to enter the UK in order to perform short blocks of work/short blocks of duties before leaving the country again. They often do so as a commercial passenger on an aircraft/ferry/train etc...

From what I have seen "Border"/PHE seem to have enough trouble with the current system without adding another rule that they can't or won't police.

Ellmau

If they just use their US ones they run the risk of being refused entry at the airport.

Why? Last time I looked US Citizens were not banned from entering the UK.

notimagain presumably the exempt people have evidence of that so, like a Visa, that would be shown to the airline before boarding.

Immigration officials always reserve the right to refuse entry. usually if they think people are liable to overstay, but in current circumstances thinking someone likely not to hold to quarantine might be a reason. Any immigration staff here who can provide expert opinion?

OMG nuts idea! I live in London - family all in Ireland- I’ve decided to stay put for Xmas this year - as have a lot of my Irish friends - we just can’t justify flying home and possibly bringing the virus to our parents! It’s just not worth it

My whole family live in another country. My parents are in their 80s. I don't know if I will ever see them again. My DS is in hell caring for the, alone and I can't help her. It literally breaks my heart but I wouldn't dream of doing what your DS is doing. Nor would my DS want me to.

The law is not subject to interpretation. It's there to save lives. The fact your sister is ignoring that - even when it includes her own parents - is mindblowingly selfish. I think if my sister did that (she wouldn't) I'd consider reporting her myself, especially to protect my parents.

Make sure you keep all the communication showing her intention to subvert the law, and your clear distancing yourself from it. You may need it to protect yourself.

notimagain presumably the exempt people have evidence of that so, like a Visa, that would be shown to the airline before boarding.

I'm possibly being thick, I'm open to correction, etc, but with regard to US Citizens and the UK I'm genuinely not sure what this "exemption" is meant to be or the implication in Ellmau's post that anyone offering up a US passport at UK Border is going to be denied entry.

AFAIK the Visa requirements for US citizens travelling to the UK remain essentially unchanged from pre-Covid days, though they are advised that a level 3 Travel Advisory in place.

Anyone arriving from the US would be expected to quarantine, just like everybody else arriving from a non-exempt destination such as for example France...

uk.usembassy.gov/travel-advisory/

The situation going the other way, i.e. A non Green card holding Brit travelling to the States is a different matter of course.

notimagain I'm not suggesting the visa requirements have changed. I am just suggesting that with a bit of co-ordinator the UK could get airlines to stop bringing passengers with no exemption who are staying in the UK for 2 weeks or less. It's easily done. You mentioned some people being exempt. The gov.uk website lists who they are and what evidence is to be carried.

implication in Ellmau's post that anyone offering up a US passport at UK Border is going to be denied entry.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that!

What I meant was, the Border Control staff do have the right to deny entry to anyone should they feel the need (see here: uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/denied-entry-to-the-uk/), and I was speculating that doubt over self isolation might give them that reason. Most US citizens will sail through of course as they do normally, and if OP's DSis and BIL still have proof of their UK citizenship I don't think it would apply to them no matter how likely they look to flout the rules.

Ellamu..Thank's I'm on your wave length now...

PastMyBestBeforeDate

If you get airlines to ban anybody with a

Again, they manage to handle exactly that sort of scenario with visas.

@Ellmau

implication in Ellmau's post that anyone offering up a US passport at UK Border is going to be denied entry.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that!

What I meant was, the Border Control staff do have the right to deny entry to anyone should they feel the need (see here: uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/denied-entry-to-the-uk/), and I was speculating that doubt over self isolation might give them that reason. Most US citizens will sail through of course as they do normally, and if OP's DSis and BIL still have proof of their UK citizenship I don't think it would apply to them no matter how likely they look to flout the rules.

I'd have thought that if a family group arrive just before Christmas it would be pretty clear they're not going to be quarantining...