How will they know who is obese?

[GinWithRosie]

Just that really! In the latest reports about new proposed 'rules' on shielding that 'may or may not' (who knows anymore!!) be introduced, it is saying that anyone over-50 and obese will be told to shield. But...how will 'they' know this information?

I guess I'd be in that category, at 56 and 14 stone, but nobody in authority knows my weight! I've never been weighed at a GP surgery or any other place where my weight has been recorded. I haven't even visited my new GP surgery...so they've not actually seen my body to have a clue what I might be in terms of BMI 🤷‍♀️

So...how will they know?

they wont need to know your BMI, @PinkSparklyPussyCat, just do your own risk assesment

@BBCONEANDTWO in thehealth sector they would have done a risk assessment

[quote GinWithRosie]@ifonly4 I do know! I said as much in my post...that wasn't my question. The report I read very clearly said that GPs had to ensure that they were sending shielding advice to obese over 50s. My GP wouldn't know that I was in this category.

And as others have already said...this will mean an awful lot of people off work through winter if it does happen 😱 Half the staff in my school will be shielding due to being obese and over 50 (when in fact we are actually perfectly ok to work 🤷‍♀️) Several will be isolating due to other reasons as an ongoing thing (we've not had a full cohort in for a full week yet since starting back, it's like the proverbial House Of Cards 🤦‍♀️)

If only we could reset 2020![/quote]
If they feel they're perfectly ok to work, why would half the staff decide to shield?

Do you think they're looking for ways to get out of working?

@Ginfordinner I don't go as it involves blood tests. I have smears and I will have a mammogram when the time comes but there's no way I'm having a blood test if I don't absolutely have to.

(I know smears and mammograms could lead to having to have blood tests if there was something wrong but it's guaranteed if I go for an MOT)

I think (might be wrong) that shielding is a choice. It’s not like having to isolate if you have symptoms etc. So if you want to protect yourself as you may be higher risk then you choose to shield. My dad is in his 80s so is high risk but he goes for a walk most days and very occasionally to a shop

Being over 80 was never by itself a trigger for shielding

@JamminDoughnuts risk assessments for weight/BMI? Of course not don't be absurd! Would you like us to situate scales at reception now too, right next to the track and trace QR code?

At the start of this in March, we had to ask staff (and rely on them to be honest in their answers) if anyone was on the vulnerable list, and 1/3 of our staff were sent home on one day! Later that was updated to vulnerable/extremely vulnerable etc so staff started to filter back in, as it transpired that some of the initial conditions on the first list had been 'downgraded'.

You just can't do this for weight/BMI in the average workplace...it's not in our remit right now. (Not sure what kind of workplace you are in @JamminDoughnuts but I think you're crossing the line with employees if you're already doing this with weight!)

I’m not sure it is obvious who is obese. Overweight, yes, absolutely, but obese in a medical sense? That’s BMI over 40 I think

No, it’s over 30!!!

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-is-the-body-mass-index-bmi/

As others said obviously no one is policing you. What were you possibly thinking, that there were some form of marshal on every street weighing people and asking for Id if they ever left the house?

Everyone over fifty would be told if they are obese to isolate. I’m genuinely surprised anyone who is a deputy head coildnt work this out.

(I don't know why my PP was in bold...I don't actually even know HOW to make something bold on here, so 🤷‍♀️)

Needle phobia is horrible @PinkSparklyPussyCat. Could you have an "MOT" without one?

I think obese is BMI > 30, BMI > 40 has another name I've forgotten!

Severe or Morbid Obesity

Obviously they won't know unless your GP surgery knows. You can't be forced to shield, you'll have to decide if you are going to or not and that's your responsibility not anybody else's.

I won't be able to shield even if it's recommended since I can't afford not to go to work. It's a choice - risk covid or risk having my children taken into care. I know which risk I'll be taking if I have to choose. As it is all I do is go to work, all shopping is done online and I don't go anywhere else indoors.

They won't be told to shield - they haven't changed the categories for that (latest version was late Sept - includes solely serious underlying medical conditions, no age, weight or any other factors included)

Putting people into indefinite full isolation (shielding means not leaving your home unless for necessary medical appointments) is a huge thing tomask.

They won't be putting large swathes of the population under such a regime, especially when so many are reporting it as tough just for 14 days after a contact.

I think they may well be urging the 'flu jab' vulnerable to tajpke a diligent and cautious approach to activities outside the home, minimising them to essential and important only plus daily exercise

@BBCONEANDTWO

This is ridiculous there are plenty of over 50's who are obese who work in the health sector - what happens there do they have to stay at home and leave all the patients to die?

They could lose some weight?

Radical idea I know

This is ridiculous there are plenty of over 50's who are obese who work in the health sector - what happens there do they have to stay at home and leave all the patients to die?

No one has to stay home. I'm not sure what people aren't getting about that?

It's a guidance.

@cardibach

I’m not sure it is obvious who is obese. Overweight, yes, absolutely, but obese in a medical sense? That’s BMI over 40 I think. Could you tell, just by looking, someone at BMI 39 from 41? I very much doubt it. Plus they haven’t really shown obesity itself is a risk factor rather than health issues often, but not always, associated with obesity (high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes etc).

A BMI of 30 and higher is considered obese. The higher the BMI, the greater the risk of developing additional health problems. A healthy weight is considered to be a BMI of 24 or less. A BMI of 25 to 29.9 is considered overweight.

Receiving a shielding letter means that you have a letter from the GP should you feel unable to attend your place of work. Many supermarkets, pharmacies, voluntary groups, etc. gave priority help to people with shielding letters during lockdown. It was an aid to protect health, not a sentence to remain indoors.

Presumably, only people who have had their BMI measured will be sent a shielding letter. If you are a person with a health condition that ought to be shielded, but have never seen a GP or had a diagnosis, then you won’t get a letter.

If you are told that your health is more at risk because of your BMI, it is really up to you what you do with that information and the precautions you choose to take.

[quote GinWithRosie]**@JamminDoughnuts risk assessments for weight/BMI? Of course not don't be absurd! Would you like us to situate scales at reception now too, right next to the track and trace QR code?

At the start of this in March, we had to ask staff (and rely on them to be honest in their answers) if anyone was on the vulnerable list, and 1/3 of our staff were sent home on one day! Later that was updated to vulnerable/extremely vulnerable etc so staff started to filter back in, as it transpired that some of the initial conditions on the first list had been 'downgraded'.

You just can't do this for weight/BMI in the average workplace...it's not in our remit right now. (Not sure what kind of workplace you are in @JamminDoughnuts but I think you're crossing the line with employees if you're already doing this with weight!) [/quote]
Lots of private companies measure weight in free health checks....because weight is a good marker for health

There’s nothing awful about that

'They' won't know OP, but if you're 56 and you know that your weight puts you into the obese category then it's up to YOU to protect yourself. But that's true of people who were advised to shield before - no one was checking up on them and making sure they weren't going out - they were advised to protect themselves.

@Bluntness100 clearly not 🙄 I also know it's 'advice'. As I have now said more than once (pity you can't be bothered to read properly...or do you just enjoy being pithy?) I wondered, after reading the report, how it was going to be managed in terms of informing those in that category...since the last 'round' of shielding advice was so much easier (as the categories were already on records that could be very easily managed administratively!) I also said...several times, very clearly...that I MYSELF ALREADY KNOW. But there will be people who don't know...either because they don't really understand what it means, don't hear about it, or other variables on the theme 🤷‍♀️ I'm owning my BMI...and never indicated otherwise!!! My query was merely...how is this going to be managed nationally in the same way that the medical shielding was?? I don't think it can be...because the information needed is not held anywhere.

I asked that @Ginfordinner and was told no, it was all or nothing. I was in the doctors surgery at the time and started to hyperventilate so she tore up the invitation!

Many supermarkets, pharmacies, voluntary groups, etc. gave priority help to people with shielding letters during lockdown. It was an aid to protect health, not a sentence to remain indoors

It was a sentence to remain indoors - they even sent helpful texts telling you to sit by an open window for fresh air, and (eventually) facilitated supermarket delivery slots (a priority which those on the list retain even during the pause)

It was the vulnerable and elderly for whom the protected opening hours were set up. Not the same group at all (though those who were shielding and couid not get food any other way couid of course also use them)

@Goatinthegarden

Receiving a shielding letter means that you have a letter from the GP should you feel unable to attend your place of work. Many supermarkets, pharmacies, voluntary groups, etc. gave priority help to people with shielding letters during lockdown. It was an aid to protect health, not a sentence to remain indoors.

Presumably, only people who have had their BMI measured will be sent a shielding letter. If you are a person with a health condition that ought to be shielded, but have never seen a GP or had a diagnosis, then you won’t get a letter.

If you are told that your health is more at risk because of your BMI, it is really up to you what you do with that information and the precautions you choose to take.

There is no way they will be sending shielding letters to everyone over 50 who is obese. They will be vulnerable but not "very vulnerable" so wouldn't be in that category.

@hamstersarse the key to your statement there is 'private companies' and 'free health checks'.

I don't think anybody would argue that being a healthy weight is a good indicator of (maybe!) being in better health. But...you can't enforce this generally in workplaces! Clock in, track and trace, temperature, stand on the scales 😱

[quote GinWithRosie]@Bluntness100 clearly not 🙄 I also know it's 'advice'. As I have now said more than once (pity you can't be bothered to read properly...or do you just enjoy being pithy?) I wondered, after reading the report, how it was going to be managed in terms of informing those in that category...since the last 'round' of shielding advice was so much easier (as the categories were already on records that could be very easily managed administratively!) I also said...several times, very clearly...that I MYSELF ALREADY KNOW. But there will be people who don't know...either because they don't really understand what it means, don't hear about it, or other variables on the theme 🤷‍♀️ I'm owning my BMI...and never indicated otherwise!!! My query was merely...how is this going to be managed nationally in the same way that the medical shielding was?? I don't think it can be...because the information needed is not held anywhere. [/quote]
To be fair you didn't really come across as knowing it's just advice, when you said Half the staff in my school will be shielding due to being obese and over 50.

How do you know such a large number of staff will choose to follow the advice?