Under 50's won't receive the vaccination

[starfro]

Although this is entirely reasonable given that for this age group risks are similar to flu (in under 25s flu is actually more deadly, the slight reverse is true over 25), it does raise a number of points:

1. Herd immunity will not be achieved by vaccination alone, and will be achieved by a combination of vaccination and infection.

1. Anyone under 50 who has been negatively impacted by lockdowns (job loss etc) has done this entirely to protect the vulnerable/elderly.

1. Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s? Most under 50's are going to get it anyway in the next few years, and this won't overload the NHS as the bulk of admissions come from the elderly.

1. There seems to be this ridiculous idea that we will re-emerge from restrictions next year all "safe" and vaccinated. This isn't the case. Any healthy under 50 that is worried is going to have to learn to live with the tiny risk the virus presents, in the same way they have to deal with other small risks (younger people aren't screened for certain cancers due to much lower risks for example).

doh! are a!

Anyone got any thoughts on the question I posed earlier - will we continue to try to contain the virus after vaccines are rolled out? (Eg quarantine if you have covid, tracing your contacts etc). Won’t this hit young people, who don’t have the fortune of being vaccinated and therefore still must suffer the effects of being carriers/transmitters of the virus?

I’ll be 50 next year and work in a school where the rest of the staff is older than me.

1. That will depend on exactly how a new vaccine works and also on side effects. Everyone might be vaccinated in the end if it's safe and works mostly by boosting immunity. If it works mainly by suppressing the illness and/or if there are side effects then it may be wiser to keep it for older people who are more at risk from getting the illness. If it has near-zero side effects and works mostly by boosting immunity then it might be better to give it to everyone over time. Not all vaccines are the same.

1. No, they did it while the govt and healthcare professionals figured out who was at risk and in the meantime put measures in place to protect everyone including those younger people who stood to lose many more years of healthy life if they did catch a bad bout.

1. Not reasonable, no, not even on the narrow economic grounds you're proposing. A lot of under 50s depend on over 50s for their own economic activity.

1. It's ridiculous to do something ridiculous in response to a ridiculous idea. Better to challenge the ridiculous idea, surely?

Assuming it's the same as the flu vaccination.

It may be or it may not. Does anyone know yet?

Many vaccinations lower risks, rather than completely eliminating them.

Well who knew?

The problem is the general public think that you can hide away for a few months, get vaccinated early next year and you're then magically "safe".

Do you know how many of the general public really believe that? Or is that just your own general impression of what people believe?

Although I would say isolate over 60s, not 50s. Vaccinate over 50s, vulnerable, elderly as is already planned.

offer state pension to over 60s/65s

You do know the state retirement age isn't 60 or even 65 any more? Anyone who is 60 now is expected to work another 6+ years and if the govt/economy couldn't afford retirement at 60 before Covid how can they afford it now?

And @Trifle66 how are teachers going to be paid if we keep locking down for years?

So anyone over 50 gets the vaccine, fair enough so they can get back to work etc abd the under 50’s don’t really need it so they can get back to work etc....

Sounds like a plan to me!

The problem is the general public think that you can hide away for a few months, get vaccinated early next year and you're then magically "safe".

I agree, but with a vaccine expected to be on par with the flu one and less than 50% vaccinated it will help a bit, no more or less

The alternative being lock everyone away? Making it harder for them for longer? You are incorrect on two major counts:

1 - countries that have stricter and better managed Covid measures such as Germany, Denmark and Taiwan are LESS locked away, not more than countries such as UK.

We take care of everyone? = we have more freedom

2 - We aren’t locked away at present. Schools are open, businesses are open, work is functioning. Many shielded people have been locked away for months, it is their mental health which is disproportionally suffering. There is no ‘normal’ for anyone. Read the harrowing accounts from places in the world where people were left the ‘survival of the fittest’ reined such as Sweden - where for example a pregnant woman described life threatening complications to her and her baby because healthcare workers were not allowed PPE, and consequently were off sick in such numbers from COVID that maternity services were non existent for her. That is not normal. Everyone suffered including a young pregnant woman and her baby.

@RedToothBrush I stand by what I say. I think you are staying with authority points you aren’t qualified to make.

@TableFlowerss the vaccine isn’t going to be sterilising. We have been told that repeatedly 🤦🏻‍♀️

@Bananasinpyjamas20 fine, leave it how it is I can accept that. But that may well not happen, we may get much harsher restrictions.

I know the state pension age. I am 60 and working myself.

I am able to wfh, but I bet there are lots of people my age who would be v glad to leave min. wage jobs at 60 if they could have a pension.

Surely better to pay pensions for the elderly that UC for the young? I don't see why it couldn't be offered as an option at least.

The vaccinations should only be offered over 50 if you have specific health conditions. Healthy people under 80 still have a really low chance of complications

@Shodan

Pfft. Good luck trying to lock me away.

'Elderly' at 50.

Lol

DH is 66 and says the same thing!

And take vitamin D everyone.

For all those in the 50-65 age bracket still working, I'd suggest that these people were a priority for any vaccination, especially if essential workers.

So you are proposing to isolate roughly a third of the workforce, and the most experienced third. This would mean that the under 50's will need to work an awful lot more hours to keep things ticking along and pay huge tax payments to support us over 50's as we put our feet up, are you sure you want that?

It's not only a vaccine that will help. Understanding of who is most at risk ( eg genetically) and getting more effective treatments will help. Also testing that is faster/more accurate/can be more easily rolled out to many people. These things would make a huge difference to what we can do.

@Redolent

Anyone got any thoughts on the question I posed earlier - will we continue to try to contain the virus after vaccines are rolled out? (Eg quarantine if you have covid, tracing your contacts etc). Won’t this hit young people, who don’t have the fortune of being vaccinated and therefore still must suffer the effects of being carriers/transmitters of the virus?

A really effective contact tracing and testing programme - which could concentrate on lower numbers of cases - would keep the virus at very low levels if we did it well.

Very specific targeted lockdowns as a result of regular testing would also be very effective. Such as is happening now in some universities (all students tested weekly). This is feasible.

That way - we could avoid huge large scale lockdowns and much more normal life could continue. It would still be wise to have high risk places such as nightclubs, indoor eating, indoor premises much better at ventilation and mask wearing whilst in indoor public spaces, including schools, would also serve to keep numbers low.

Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s?

You can stick that where the sun doesn't shine. Sideways. I won't be cancelled. And I won't be fucking isolated either

"For all those in the 50-65 age bracket still working"

which is most.

Oh, and if you want my vaccination, feel free: I won't be having it!

My mum is 54 and works 2 jobs, lives alone and has bills to pay. She's physically fitter than most of the people my own age, and is extremely healthy too.
I couldn't imagine anybody telling her she had to stay indoors. Bloody ridiculous notion.

Both those jobs are within in the nhs too, and many of her colleagues are of similar age. Who's looking after the people that get poorly if you take half the nhs staff out and isolate them?