Under 50's won't receive the vaccination

[starfro]

Although this is entirely reasonable given that for this age group risks are similar to flu (in under 25s flu is actually more deadly, the slight reverse is true over 25), it does raise a number of points:

1. Herd immunity will not be achieved by vaccination alone, and will be achieved by a combination of vaccination and infection.

1. Anyone under 50 who has been negatively impacted by lockdowns (job loss etc) has done this entirely to protect the vulnerable/elderly.

1. Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s? Most under 50's are going to get it anyway in the next few years, and this won't overload the NHS as the bulk of admissions come from the elderly.

1. There seems to be this ridiculous idea that we will re-emerge from restrictions next year all "safe" and vaccinated. This isn't the case. Any healthy under 50 that is worried is going to have to learn to live with the tiny risk the virus presents, in the same way they have to deal with other small risks (younger people aren't screened for certain cancers due to much lower risks for example).

Many of us women in our 50s are entire financial lynchpin for the family support 3 or 4 student younger children sometimes elderly parents and whole households. I am in my 50s. I will work until I die. i expect to have about 20 year + of working life ahead of me.

My understanding is there particular fears over the safety of Chinese and Russian vaccines potentially being imported here because of the way they have been tested to standards significantly lower than we expect here - but it is likely to happen because people are so fearful and think "vaccine = good" rather than a more considered analysis.

It’s illegal to import unlicensed medicines without notifying the MHRA, and the MHRA will intervene if they have any concerns.

Supplying dodgy vaccines would be illegal, prescribing them unethical, and administering them without a prescription would also be illegal.

So although it’s possible that some potentially unsafe product could get into the UK, it’s not likely to be able to flood the normal supply chains.

OP - I do think your suggestion that everyone over 50 should be isolated is very short-sighted. As PP have said, most people in this age group work, and within the group you have senior surgeons, barristers, judges, Company CEOs, and many other people at the pinnacle of their career, full of experience and knowledge. You just could not create a vacuum by removing all these people from society for an unspecified period.

Young people have many years to learn and train for their career, and many years to work to achieve. A missed year is not that much a problem.

The chance of dying if infected for Covid (IFR) if you're in your forties and healthy is 0.0035% for men, and 0.002% for women.

Source?

And lots of people in their 40's have comorbidities, some of which will be undocumented in their medical records. You've also ignored my points about the long term sequela and suffering and economic cost of pts who have nonfatal cases.

Another factor is demand. People at high risk will seek out the vaccine, many others won't. If supplies are sufficient let people make their own decision about it.

Why can’t it just be that anyone who is vulnerable shields and the rest of us get back to normal? All this seems like complete bollocks especially if young people aren’t even going to get a vaccine. Really, what is the point?

It’s for a virus that kills less than 1% of the population, I really don’t understand this nonsense anymore, and I’m so done with it all, as are most people I know.

I actually think it's the under 60's who should get it.

Under 50's.

Oh come on, 50 and above is a significant proportion of the working population!

God, when I think of my sons' teachers, the Consultants I work with, Social workers, Nurses, most are nearing or already over 50.

I'm nearly there and TBH after the year I've had working full time plus extra on wards, I'd love to have some time off but who is paying?

And how is that good for anyone's mental health? I work within older persons mental health, most of our admissions have been lockdown related in one way or another, not close enough monitoring, isolation, lack of social activities. These are vulnerable people who would be at high risk from covid but the impact had still been huge on their lives and well being.

It was reported in the FT that is the source. And yes it said exactly that.

I am totally confused by people saying that high risk people can’t isolate but then they seem to think lockdown is a good idea for all?

Surely if as many under 50s have it as possible over the next few months then by next spring when the vaccination with 50% efficacy arrives it will actually protect the vulnerable with lower infection rates so they can get on with their lives. Or we can just kick the can further down the road and be having the same conversations next year.

No solution is perfect is the issue so someone will always be badly impacted.

I agree, although I would say isolate over 60s, not 50s. Vaccinate over 50s, vulnerable, elderly as is already planned.

Let the rest of society get on with their lives.

This would be horrible for me because I am over 60 (and wfh )but well worth it if it helped the impact this virus is having on young people.

Also, offer state pension to over 60s/65s so that they can retire and free up jobs for younger people. (Not retire and then become re-employed).

The impact this is having on the young for the sake of the old is too much. It's not fair.

I look after my dgc along with many others - if I/we are locked away this is going to have an enormous affect on many people who are: low paid or single parents or who work shifts (like the NHS or delivery workers etc) who happen to be under this age
I tell you what how about we just cull the over 50's

Why can’t it just be that anyone who is vulnerable shields and the rest of us get back to normal?

This has been explained again and again - but this will not work. And there is no normal, this sentence is pure fantasy.

• the vulnerable cannot just ‘shield’. They need to go to the doctors, the dentists. They are the doctors and the dentists! They are parents (me included).
• other workers will always have to be in contact with ‘vulnerable people’. Young people work in care homes, not robots. Young people will bring in the virus to the care homes.
• this is still a nasty, serious virus. We do not know enough about it. We don’t know the long term effects of it on young people.
• long term Covid. This isn’t just from those with it seriously. This can pop up weeks later from people who were mild or even asymptomatic and of any age.
• I don’t want to lock vulnerable people away just so that I can have a holiday, not wear a mask, eat out. It’s inhumane.

I don’t want to lock vulnerable people away just so that I can have a holiday, not wear a mask, eat out. It’s inhumane.

The alternative being lock everyone away? Making it harder for them for longer?

@MrsMigginsMate

WutheringTights, you are incorrect. The article states Matt Hancock wants to do a full rollout despite the advisors recommendation.

From the article "But Mr Hancock, answering health questions in the Commons, insisted: “Decisions on the distribution of any vaccine have not been taken."

Sounds a bit weak to me.

@WutheringTights it may well be that for healthy under 50s the risk of the vaccine is assessed to be higher than the risk of contracting covid. So whatever Hancock wants won’t necessarily be relevant to licensing.

Maybe they could offer it privately and those who are low priority can pay for it like they can the flu jab.

Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s?

When you reach 50, OP, think back on what you have written here.

And fuck that. Who is going to support my children? Why should we be forced into a life on some kind of benefit because we hit 50?

Seriously, every 50 - 60 year old I k ow is in a professional position with responsibility, with skill and expertise you can’t buy. You are fucking loopy.

'Age
Overall, the age mix within the workforce has remained fairly constant, but the increasing number of doctors over 50 and nearing retirement in some specialities is worrying.
■ In 2019, 73% of public health specialists are 50 or over, compared to 65% in 2012. Among anaesthetics and intensive care specialists, the increase in this demographic is from
36% to 42%.
■ Encouragingly, in contrast, the proportion of GPs over 50 has declined from 41% to 37 %'

(www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/the-state-of-medical-education-and-practice-in-the-uk---workforce-report_pdf-80449007.pdf)

According to some surveys nearly half of doctors in the US are over 55.

Shall we look up teachers next, or senior police/armed forces, or perhaps utility service managers?

IceCreamSummer

But the only alternative seems to be to lock everyone away. What else do you suggest? If people cannot work and pay taxes, how else can care for the vulnerable be funded?

@Enoughnowstop

Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s?

When you reach 50, OP, think back on what you have written here.

And fuck that. Who is going to support my children? Why should we be forced into a life on some kind of benefit because we hit 50?

Seriously, every 50 - 60 year old I k ow is in a professional position with responsibility, with skill and expertise you can’t buy. You are fucking loopy.

Is it therefore reasonable as a compromise to isolate the over 50's and reopen the economy for under 50s?

When you reach 50, OP, think back on what you have written here.

And fuck that. Who is going to support my children? Why should we be forced into a life on some kind of benefit because we hit 50?

Seriously, every 50 - 60 year old I k ow is in a professional position with responsibility, with skill and expertise you can’t buy. You are fucking loopy.

Over 60s isn't too much of an ask though? After all, we over 60s have had it pretty good for a long time.

Also there is fair size population of grandparents who foster their own grand children long term (parents unable to look after them for whatever reason)

mumwon

But they are not a problem because they will be vaccinated.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

My understanding is there particular fears over the safety of Chinese and Russian vaccines potentially being imported here because of the way they have been tested to standards significantly lower than we expect here - but it is likely to happen because people are so fearful and think "vaccine = good" rather than a more considered analysis.

It’s illegal to import unlicensed medicines without notifying the MHRA, and the MHRA will intervene if they have any concerns.

Supplying dodgy vaccines would be illegal, prescribing them unethical, and administering them without a prescription would also be illegal.

So although it’s possible that some potentially unsafe product could get into the UK, it’s not likely to be able to flood the normal supply chains.

There will still be pressure for the government to allow these imports in the context of a short of vaccines though.

We need to manage expectations and ensure that people fully understand why we only allow uk vaccinations and perhaps more reasonably why we shouldn't allow American vaccines (as thats going to be the really big pressure post transition and into a possible trade deal with the us)

Given that illegal drugs do manage to get imported and theres a huge amount of fear, there will be a demand. Thats what we need to be mindful of.

Remember next years big political argument is going to be this issue.

Who is defined as clinically vulnerable or not (in under 50s).

Who is defined as a priority key worker (and who is not).

Why are fit healthy people under 50 able to get vaccinated privately so they can swan off on holiday (and why this might not necessarily be the smartest idea) when 75 year old Ethel from Knowsley hasnt got hers yet because she can't get to the vaccination site because its not on a bus route or she has insufficient means to get there or she cant book an appointment online or because there's still a shortage of nhs vaccine vials?

It concerns me that we aren't giving more thought / consideration at this point because it only serves to build up as political issues rather than clinically driven ones.

Im over 50 and a teacher. Who will teach your children if I'm locked away? Can you shop for me too? As i live alone.

Mind there area fair few politicians...