Seething, this is why it's spreading

[Willbob]

We live in a local lockdown area. A family member went to visit another family member in a non lockdown area (I know they're not allowed, not my call, I wouldn't have). They went with their partner and child. Their partner and his parent are now positive, their childs nursery has closed as many of the children have tested positive. They haven't passed the details to track n trace because they visited ilegally. Of the family that they visited one is isolating, maybe? The other definitely isn't and wants to go to work. In the meantime my gran In her 80's has been visited for her wellbeing by one of the people who should be isolating (not known at the time).

I'm seething. This is why the pandemic is spreading and why the vulnerable are at risk. I'm 100% certain others around the country will being doing similar. How can the numbers be accurate and how can it possibly be controlled?

Viruses can’t be controlled.

Masks and SD may play their part but they aren’t the answer.

Whilst so much of society of open then the virus will flourish no matter what we do.

I’m baffled at how many people seem to think that masks, SD and isolation is going to make this go away.

Some people are not going to stop seeing their friends and family and as selfish as you think that is, that’s just human nature.

The virus can’t be controlled and people can’t be controlled.

All you can do is focus on following the rules if that’s what you want to do and accept you can’t change anything that is happening around you.

More people are getting fed up and so are ignoring the rules. Other people may just have a very relaxed view about the virus and not believe it’s as contagious as it is and maybe some people think they’re invincible.

We can’t know what goes through people’s head so all you can is your utmost to keep yourself safe and let go off the anger about things you can’t change.

My anger is admittedly at them for being so stupid and I'm worried about my grandma but I'm also very angry at having my choices removed by people (general wider population not just relatives). By breaking the rules eg knowing you've been in contact with a positive case then not isolating and going to work and not saying anything. That is choosing to put others deliberately and knowing at more risk. The rules of the land are there to be followed by all, why do some people think that they dont apply to them, it is selfish.

I agree with you OP. And what @Inkpaperstars has written.

Yes I agree that some people are not taking this seriously.
I admit we also have idiot members in our family .
One a nurse ( in her late 30s ) goes on holiday, has to isolate for 2 weeks when came back. Still going shopping , and seeing friends !

I’m baffled at how many people seem to think that masks, SD and isolation is going to make this go away.

Exactly. But they’re clinging to an illusion of control. If only this, then it’ll be ok. They don’t want to face the fact that no, control isn’t within our gift, no matter what we do.

But until that goes in, we’ll be very hindered in finding strategies to manage what we’re actually dealing with (rather than what we’d like to be dealing with).

Some people are not going to stop seeing their friends and family and as selfish as you think that is, that’s just human nature.

Yes. For how long is it reasonable to stop people from physically seeing their loved ones? Many people have already had enough.

I’ve seen my parents twice since February. I’m now in local lockdown (not UK) and don’t know if I’ll see them before Christmas (or if then). How is that a reasonable ask? FIL died a few years ago from a sudden heat attack, no warning, a fit 71 year old. I’m conscious of that. My parents are not young and there are many things other than Covid they can die from. Is it right to stop them seeing children, grandchildren?

The reality is that this so called deadly virus for most of us is nothing, had far worse colds. I barely noticed a fever (thought it was a hot flush) and only twigged I had covid when I lost taste and smell, dp was similar - we are middle aged and overweight, supposedly higher risk and it was still nothing. I'm not going to put my life on hold any longer, it's just an endemic disease we need to learn to live with by the vulnerable taking extra precautions and being vaccinated annually

My grandparents are in their 80’s, certainly not in the best health and they have seen my children (who they adore) since February and they miss them terribly. They have been playing by the rules and shielding bit they’ve now reached a point where they want to start seeing their own children again, their grandchildren and great grandchildren because they don’t believe the risk of catching Covid is worth being separated from their family. In all likelihood I doubt they have much time left on this earth, which they are both aware of, and they want to spend the time they have with their family and that is completely normal and understandable.

Everyone keeps saying we are doing things like banning households mixing and stopping family from seeing each other in order to protect the old and vulnerable, but has anyone even considered that maybe the old and vulnerable don’t want this? Maybe they want to see their family and friends? Maybe it’s a risk they’re willing to take?

I know my elderly relatives don’t want this.

Piece by piece we are losing our freedom and human rights and it scares me to think how accepted this is and also where will it end?

People can only take so much and being kept away from friends and family is not something they will tolerate for much longer.

Call it selfish if you like but it’s the reality of the situation we’re in.

There is absolutely no answer to trying to get a hold of this.

Whilst so much of society is continuing then the virus will flourish, but nor can the country go into lock down again. Forbidding people from seeing their family is not something that is going to be tolerated by many.

Not everyone who should be isolating because T&T have told them to, can’t afford not to work and so they carry on with their life.

Like I said I have no idea how this can be controlled - in reality it can’t be, and people need to stop clinging onto the dream that with masks and SD it will all go away.

We are in for a terrible, terrible winter and I don’t think anything we do as a society is going to prevent that.

I predict a very shitty 6 months and I’m dreading it.

Ps suicide rates are really bad at the moment, especially in young people. Staying put isn't always the right thing to do. I will continue to see my young adult kids as will dp because that is the responsible thing to do (2 are on antidepressants)

@QueenofmyPrinces

Viruses can’t be controlled.

Masks and SD may play their part but they aren’t the answer.

Whilst so much of society of open then the virus will flourish no matter what we do.

I’m baffled at how many people seem to think that masks, SD and isolation is going to make this go away.

Some people are not going to stop seeing their friends and family and as selfish as you think that is, that’s just human nature.

The virus can’t be controlled and people can’t be controlled.

All you can do is focus on following the rules if that’s what you want to do and accept you can’t change anything that is happening around you.

More people are getting fed up and so are ignoring the rules. Other people may just have a very relaxed view about the virus and not believe it’s as contagious as it is and maybe some people think they’re invincible.

We can’t know what goes through people’s head so all you can is your utmost to keep yourself safe and let go off the anger about things you can’t change.

Totally agree. I am following all the rules but I can’t get worked up about other people not, except for people going about with symptoms, I think that’s terrible. But even then you can see why people do it if they need to go to work.

Does anyone else ever think that people getting pissed off about a general social failure to prevent the spread of a virus that is almost impossible to prevent spreading (given the highly interconnected nature of our society) is just the perfect excuse for the government to exercise ever more control measures and people consent because they are blaming the amorphous "rule breakers"? That this sort of discussion is exactly what the government hope for as they impose ever greater and more absurd restrictions to try and control the population and slowly strip away everything from life that makes it worthwhile living. And does anyone seriously think that having once gotten the sort of power they're getting they will willfully give it up? I mean the amount of personal data the government gets from the NHS test and trace app is the kind of thing they could only have dreamed of when Tony Blaire suggested identity cards. All our biographic data linked to our NHS profile as well as our movements tracked and recorded for the government to peruse at will. Gosh, I can't possibly think of any nefarious uses for that.

I suppose it might be possible that the government have introduced all these measures to simply make it look like they're doing something. But Boris' clear reluctance to give up the covid laws and cede control of the law making to parliament don't exactly look like a man who wants to give up control.

Interesting post @Hiddenmnetter and agree there might be a hidden agenda to what the government is doing. It’s impossible to stop the spread of the virus and I’m quite surprised at how the general population seems to be just rolling over and not questioning anything. But our government isn’t alone in behaving like this and apart from Sweden, the same draconian measures are being enforced across the world.

Imagine not understanding that short term benefits carry huge long run costs.

You mean like the long term costs that all the control measures generate: disengaging some young people from education forever, extra hidden domestic violence, delays in all kinds of medical treatment, delays in presentation for health problems, job losses and loss of financial security, permanent decline in dental health, huge tax burden on our kids that won't be paid off for 50 years, enormous resentment in people like OP about perceived "covidiots" -- I also worry about all that and a lot more of the long term hidden harms too.

Here here @lljkk! Have you heard about the Great Barrington Declaration?

It’s impossible to police the population. I know for a fact that many uni students are regularly visiting multiple households after the pubs shut and there’s no social distancing whatsoever. I laugh in the face of anyone who calls them covidiots. They are probably your sons and daughters too.

It’s spreading because it’s a virus, control measures are an illusion to make it look like someone is in control. Ultimately we just have to get on with our lives, why not start today?

It's spreading because we did nothing initially, have now let it become endemic in some areas, spunked a load of money on trying to give track and trace contracts to Bojo and Dom's mates, expect people to isolate even when they'll lose income to do so, and last of all because it's a virus and that's what they do and probably millions of people have had it whilst having no symptoms whatsoever.

Humans are going to human, and any tactic for dealing with a virus that doesn't take this into account is going to fail.

I cannot work out whether some people's actions are just pure selfishness or just a complete lack of awareness or both. DDs bubble had to isolate due to confirmed cases at her college but many of those that were supposed to isolate still went to the gym, to eat out and met up with friends and did so with their parents blessing. Apparently it was ok because they were not sick 🙄. Kier Starmer highlighted at PMQs today the fact that cases in areas with more restrictions are rising not falling. They can close pubs at 10pm or 6pm and it will have little difference because people are just not adhering to restrictions around lockdown areas, households mixing and isolation.

I cannot work out whether some people's actions are just pure selfishness or just a complete lack of awareness....

My guess is some people are just bored by it all.

Humans are going to human, and any tactic for dealing with a virus that doesn't take this into account is going to fail.

Exactly this.

Seething, this is why it's spreading

Well, stop seething then!

Thanks @HildegardeCrowe, I have heard of the Barrington thing, thought about signing it but I agree there needs to be a better plan for how to protect the vulnerable or it's a non-starter. I shouldn't sign if I don't have a clear vision what to do, I reckon.

And it could damage my prospects for some job things. Oooh well.

Living in a 'lockdown area'..the numbers rising after the additional restrictions doesn't surprise me one bit. As at the point where we were told to not mix with anyone at all from another house, MANY in my circle seemed to go into complete fuck it mode after following rules for months. That was a very very very noticeable turning point.

They can close pubs at 10pm or 6pm and it will have little difference because people are just not adhering to restrictions around lockdown areas, households mixing and isolation.

And because it's quite likely endemic in at least some of the local lockdown areas, and a huge number of us in have to rely on or provide informal childcare between loved ones, and because people are disproportionately likely to have jobs that require physical presence in a workplace, and last but not least because of course sending the kids back to school (mine are there) means there'll be an increase.

I happened to be in a pub on the day it was announced there was a 'novel coronavirus'. About 6 weeks later I spent 3 days ill in bed and on the 4th woke up to have my first cup of tea in 4 days. I promptly threw it back up and spent the next 7 hours vomiting. I believe it was because I was hungry (I always feel queasy if I get too hungry). Luckily a friend drove me to A&E and helped me stagger in. I was severely dehydrated and spent 6 hours in resus. I was kept in overnight. In resus there were two separate rooms that had doors that had almost constant traffic with nurses wearing full PPE and it was because they were confirmed SARS/COV2 patients. When I got home I self isolated for a week (the rule at the time-I live alone) and have followed the rules since. I will continue to do so unless it affects my job which is to look after commercial properties.