Who will get the vaccine

[IrishMamaMia]

I've been following on the news today about the revelation that not quite as many as us as expected will be getting the vaccine. The Evening Standard ran this interesting editorial on it :
www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/coronaviris-vaccine-political-bombshell-george-osborne-a4564456.html
Now don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge care workers and the vulnerable the vaccine. However, I'm mid-thirties with children and work in a public facing role.. How long do they really expect the average adult to live with these restrictions if Covid is still rampant with only a percentage of the population immunised?!

[quote IrishMamaMia]@sheepandcow I do notice a lot of victims in the 45-50 age group when I have read about fatalities in the press.
@Char2015 it seems like the higher BAME risk has been quietly dropped![/quote]
I think it's because of the review they took which found that patients admitted to ICU/dying, that once age, sex, obesity and other comorbidities are taken into account there is no difference between ethnic groups.

So no population immunity and it ‘may cause freak harm’ to those under fifty. Why?? What other vaccine does that?! I would personally be really worried about having the vaccine with that description. Is it even worth having?!

I think that the problem people are having is not that some people are rightly being prioritised, but that they are saying they are NOT going to vaccinate the rest. Even when the older and more vulnerable have been vaccinated.

@Babdoc

OP, the logistical issue with this year’s flu vaccine is the unprecedented demand for it! There was plenty for the regular patients, but we’ve been swamped by younger fitter people wanting it too. The Covid vaccine has already been manufactured in sufficient quantity for the whole population- it’s just waiting to complete safety/efficacy trials. If it gets the go ahead, it makes sense to give it first to the very elderly and frail. Because they are most at risk from Covid, and also have les years of life expectancy to spend damaged if the vaccine turns out to have an unexpected adverse side effect. Care home workers and NHS staff also need to be in the early cohort for vaccine, as they are also at high risk of exposure themselves and onward transmission to vulnerable patients. Healthy young adults are a lower priority as they are unlikely to die from Covid, so the risk/benefit balance is less convincing. But they are at risk of chronic disability from long covid, so it probably will be worth immunising them once the more urgent groups are done, and once we have had the chance to detect any adverse reactions.

She isn't saying this though. She is basically saying that people under 50 won't get it (although the way she has worded it is somewhat ambiguous).

She's been misquoted or she has forgotten her own priority list.

@Hmmph

I think that the problem people are having is not that some people are rightly being prioritised, but that they are saying they are NOT going to vaccinate the rest. Even when the older and more vulnerable have been vaccinated.

This. And, if it's going to be restricted by age it should be from 45, not 50. (Although because of Long Covid, it shouldn't be restricted).

I wonder...will MPs aged under 50 be getting it?

There are 3 vaccines being trialled here in the UK. Surely there is enough to go round. It's not risky to vaccinate the whole population. One vaccine might be better for one group than another. Everyone will be vaccinated within time.

Teachers should be at the front of the queue (or near the front, anyway). We won't get any priority despite working in risky conditions.

Anyone who is currently offered the flu jab (for free) will likely be offered the COVID vaccine. So you probably won’t get it, neither will the children.

@Bluewavescrashing

Teachers should be at the front of the queue (or near the front, anyway). We won't get any priority despite working in risky conditions.

Government are questioning whether even health and social care staff should get priority. It is all dependent on the type of vaccine that comes through. If they don't end up with priority then unfortunately, I can't see teachers being any closer to the front.

@Bluewavescrashing

Teachers should be at the front of the queue (or near the front, anyway). We won't get any priority despite working in risky conditions.

I totally agree with this and I am not a teacher, nor do I have kids.

@BewilderedDoughnut

Anyone who is currently offered the flu jab (for free) will likely be offered the COVID vaccine. So you probably won’t get it, neither will the children.

Thinking Covid was the same as the flu is one of the reasons we're in such a big mess.

They need to consider who's most at risk from Covid when it comes to the Covid vaccines. There is some overlap with the flu risk groups but clearly not completely - unless everyone over 40 or 45 should be offered the flu jab?

I would like to see it being offered as a priority to those of us who work in key worker, public facing roles,after the most vulnerable of course. It doesn't really matter for me though, I will surely have had the virus at least once at that stage. I work in a school and commute by tube.

Because this is different to the flu, we need to plan and prioritise differently.

Because of the risk of Long Covid we need to look at not only who's most vulnerable to dying but also who's most likely to catch it.
So perhaps teachers would be higher priority than others, as would delivery drivers, shop and bar and restaurant staff, but possibly perhaps we might also need to look more generally at where someone lives. Urban areas, particularly high density housing, are more at risk than rural places.

@Hmmph

I think that the problem people are having is not that some people are rightly being prioritised, but that they are saying they are NOT going to vaccinate the rest. Even when the older and more vulnerable have been vaccinated.

Yes, that’s the issue I’ve got with it.

Obviously there’s got to be priorities over who gets it first, but I’d like the government to be planning for the vaccine to be made available at some point to everyone who wants it.

Covid isn’t risk free just because an individual is under 50 and less likely to die, there’s plenty of reports of long Covid in the under-50’s, and there’s likely to be large numbers of people suffering long term effects if the policy is to let under-50’s just catch Covid.

Whether the whole population is vaccinated will come down to how much immunity it conveys (full or just lessens symptoms) and probability of side effects. As most under 50's have very few symptoms and no long lasting effects what is the point of vaccination? They need to vaccinate the vulnerable just like with flu

@sheepandcow plan and prioritise.. Not strengths the government or Public Health England are known for. I worry about their ability to even vaccinate the vulnerable population alone.

I also think that people (working age) won't comply at all with restrictions if they find out that they aren't going to get it. It seems pointless on a personal, purely selfish level. As others have said though, I'm probably over-thinking this.

The vaccination will be on sale privately for those that are desperate and can pay.

@SheepandCow

I'm in that age group, had covid and quite frankly I've had far worse colds. Just because you are in your late 40's it doesn't mean you'll get particularly sick . 60 seems to be the age people are beginning to get properly ill. A few younger people have got sick but they are very much the exception. Vaccination plans work on population modelling and they will be looking at where the risks from vaccination are higher than the disease.

The purpose of the lockdown restrictions is to protect the vulnerable and prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. It isn’t, and never was, to protect the young and healthy. They won’t be vaccinated because they don’t need to be.

Once the vulnerable are protected by the vaccine everyone else will be able to get on with their lives, herd immunity will build up quickly, the pandemic will be over and we will all be able to get back to normal.

That’s the theory, anyway.

@IrishMamaMia
Unfortunately I think you're right - both your posts.

@movingonup20
You (and Trump) are making the mistake of assuming everyone will have the same experience as you. It's best to go on medical evidence and data than two people's individual situations.

We know that the risks (of death or hospitalisation) increase from 40 or 45.

We also know that Long Covid is a risk to all ages and (so far) particularly seems to be affecting the working age population.

We also need to take into account non medical risk factors such as deprivation and urban living.

@IrishMamaMia

Thanks *@Babdoc and @MRex* for the reassuring comments. As things have been chaotic with the government response so far it's easy to automatically to speculate negatively at the moment. No need to worry yet without a confirmed vaccine.

The government will be following the advice of the Joint committee for Vaccination and immunisation, so you don't really need to worry about the government response. The committee members know what they're doing.

I work in a school so I'm high risk but you couldnt pay me to get the vaccine. They can't even get an ICT algorithm to properly count tests correct.

Pre Covid if you had asked me to get a vaccination for a new serious virus I would have been first in the queue, but after the debacles of the late lockkdown, PPE scandal, schools, lack of ventilators, Cummings, how they dealt with care homes and Boris getting the rules wrong I've simply lost all confidence in them to get anything right.

@meloraspalm

So no population immunity and it ‘may cause freak harm’ to those under fifty. Why?? What other vaccine does that?! I would personally be really worried about having the vaccine with that description. Is it even worth having?!

All drugs have risks of side effects, including the paracetamol or ibuprofen you take for a headache, the antihistamine you take for hay fever or the hormonal contraceptive you take to prevent pregnancy. The questions are : 1, How big are the risks? 2, Do the risks outweigh the benefits?

It’s a similar situation with vaccines. Do the benefits of having the vaccine, ie immunity from covid, outweigh the potential risk of side-effects? If you’re an obese 80 year old with COPD, for whom covid would be extremely serious, the answer is obviously yes. For a fit, healthy 25 year old, however, the answer may not be as clear-cut.