Coronavirus outbreaks in England spreading mostly in schools

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Link here

I know it is what many of us have been predicting for some months, so an all too familiar topic.

However, I thought some of you, maybe especially teachers or those from vulnerable families, might be interested in having the article flaaged up.

I work in a university. We have 7 cases currently. Not rampant here.

I would like online learning for all but the most vulnerable and key worker's children, as well.

I had no problem working from home and home schooling as a single parent. Unless children are under around 6 or have SEN, I think it's fine.

Needs a proper online school system set up though, probably with classes able to be replayed for children whose parents have to work during school hours. Mine did their work in the evenings when I was 9-5.

People could also cut back hours or quit work if a two parent family, especially high earners. I'm a low paid single parent and we get by fine. No car / affordable car, cheaper days out and clothes etc. It may be an unpopular viewpoint, but people could cut back a bit.

Another option could be two systems - online with voluntary attendance. Or blended learning. If the government want to put children first, they would properly fund alternatives. The economic pay off from being able to open more other venues could be used to fund it.

Masks should be worn by all pupils as well imo. Other countries do it.

I think the fines and prosecutions for keeping children off are a disgrace.

Yes, COVID is mostly ok in children and young people, but not always. This previously healthy teenager was ventilated, is lucky to be alive and relearning to walk, saw this earlier -

amp.rte.ie/amp/1168767/

Scares me. Mine are in school, they wear masks all day, but the risk to them still scares me even though I don't show it to them.

We don’t know how many have it in schools as they aren’t testing.

Education is important but it’s not more important than the lives of parents, staff and children. It can be caught up on, delivered remotely etc. School staff need protecting, it’s not in their job description to provide childcare for parents but to educate children and they can do that safely by doing it remotely.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

We don’t know how many have it in schools as they aren’t testing.

Education is important but it’s not more important than the lives of parents, staff and children. It can be caught up on, delivered remotely etc. School staff need protecting, it’s not in their job description to provide childcare for parents but to educate children and they can do that safely by doing it remotely.

Remote education via screens is not as good as in school.

And schools were more childcare than education last term due to KW etc provision.

Do you want remote schooling for everyone including KW?

I think the risk from mixing in schools would be easier to deal with if the government (and a vocal part of MN) hadn't been gaslighting those trying to work out their personal risks.

I mean, it's not a surprise, we knew the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes. The issue is that the trust is gone.

The government need to be more upfront than ever before of there is any hope of winning trust and acceptance. I'm not convinced they have learnt that lesson.

@ceeveebee I'm in a secondary school, so is DD. Both schools are Y7-13, so up to 18.

Right so the future is no schools, all at home. We probably won't need many teachers either, have a universal curriculum, a handful of Mr Hegarty's and Oak Academy style learning and all sorted.

Sell off the schools for housing (££££) and save on salaries (£££). Even committing to getting every pupil a laptop they will still be quids up. Corbyn's idea of free broadband for all doesn't seem such a daft idea anymore.

This is the future.

[quote StatisticalSense]@PinkFondantFancy
I have long said that employers expecting such hours should employ a more reasonable number of staff or accept that a lot of work won't get done. It is not the governments job to support employers demanding unreasonable levels of work and employers need to be reminded of the working time directive that bans them from asking for more than 48 hours a work a week.[/quote]
Ha! The government themselves employ many Head Teachers, most of whom have been working far more than 48 poxy hours a week through the pandemic, and indeed most term time weeks before the pandemic was even thought of.

Watch independent schools boom if that is the future!

@TheGreatWave

Right so the future is no schools, all at home. We probably won't need many teachers either, have a universal curriculum, a handful of Mr Hegarty's and Oak Academy style learning and all sorted.

Sell off the schools for housing (££££) and save on salaries (£££). Even committing to getting every pupil a laptop they will still be quids up. Corbyn's idea of free broadband for all doesn't seem such a daft idea anymore.

This is the future.

Can't see anything wrong with that. No schools doesn't mean all at home and it doesn't mean no education.

It does mean no education for those whose parents can't be arsed. Why do you think we had to introduce free primary education in the first place?

@BaronessEllaSaturday

I want schools to stay open. Closing them again will destroy my dd, the difference going back has made to her has been staggering. She can't cope with home learning as it just enforces what she is missing to her.

My year 9 class today were asking me when schools were going to close again. I said that they will be the last thing to close (well, this is what the government have said), a huge majority of them all then started moaning about how they want school to close. Please don't tell me it was peer pressure that led to their reaction, it was genuine, they all said schools were not safe due to no masks and they would rather be learning online🤷‍♀️

"Human societies normally put children first, not last. There's nothing exemplary or morally admirable about damaging their future lives to protect adults"

No, they protect those that are at most risk of dying. In the case of COVID that is not children.

I have 2 DCs at 2 separate large secondary schools in London where almost all the pupils will be travelling in by tube and bus. Not a single positive case yet so far bar one member of staff on Day 2 so was not related to school. A few children have had to self isolate due to family members but have not developed symptoms themselves.
In one DC's school they have to wear masks all the time and in the other just in corridors etc.
It is certainly not tearing through the schools around here. Compare that to March when half the staff and children were off with one thing or another.
Noone I know, including teachers, wants the schools to close and most of them have the resources and time to commit to home schooling.

My Year 9 also says she wants school to close (as do all her friends apparently). Not because they are remotely scared of Covid but because she fancies more of a lie in and they didn't get homework in the last lockdown!

Number of schools in England = approx 27,000
Number of outbreaks = 595

That's still a small percentage.

In my DC's very large secondary school they recently had one case of Covid-19. There were subsequently no other infections and the school is now back to zero infections.

Yr11 here definitely prefers in school rather than screen learning.

No closures yet either luckily

“This article calls two or more cases in a school an outbreak. It is also only looking at outbreaks in institutions. It doesn't include spread in the home.
Two cases in one school could come from one family. I'm really not sure that this article shows it is mainly spreading in schools”

Good points @JS87.

And last week Chris Whitty was quite clear that transmission is not increasing in schools, and cases in schools are arising from transmission in homes.

I’m confused really. DH works in a large hospital, he has NOBODY with covid in his ITU. We are in a lockdown area with huge, apparently spiralling cases. Hospital is inner city.

The number of admissions to hospital remains low. It was described by management as a ‘trickle.’ It’s been like this for a month.

So. Do we concentrate on whether it’s spreading in schools, or do we ask wider questions?

'Education is important but it’s not more important than the lives of parents, staff and children.'
Fundamentally disagree, esp. when you look at the numbers. The education of 10 million school aged children in UK IS more important than the lives of c 570 15- 44 year olds who have died with Covid, and yes, even the 5,000 45 to 64 year olds too. To put the day to day right to education of kids at risk for the sake of 0.05% of that number dying IS clearly nonsensical. Especially when there is no current evidence that incidents of covid at schools is feeding the death rate.

You can't possibly just keep school open for KW children now as it's just KW people working unlike in lockdown. Me and DH don't have KW jobs but we are still out at work both full time, who supervises my DC doing home schooling. I could possibly do some days WFH but you know I still have to actually work during 9-5.30 in a fairly intense job that I'm tied to the phone all day , hours of the business aren't flexible. DH is In construction he can't wfh or unsociable hours. Side note to that I've 3 dc with 1 laptop, explain to me how I can successfully get them educated online to a good standard that would equal what they do in school all at the same time as well as working myself ? Its all well and good having grand ideas to online teach all kids but I doubt my situation is unusual how exactly is it practically all going to happen??

I'm just not sure we can keep bickering about deaths vs. education.

Look at Germany, let alone Vietnam or NZ - they don't have to choose.

Surely we can, with investment in education, find a way to educate that doesn't put lives at risk?

a huge majority of them all then started moaning about how they want school to close. Please don't tell me it was peer pressure that led to their reaction, it was genuine, they all said schools were not safe due to no masks and they would rather be learning online

Yes because they probably did hardly any work.

My year 9 had online school from 8.30am until 4, all day, 5 x.a week plus 3 hours on a Saturday. Endless sports challenges on Strava. It was absolutely knackering and she has no desire to go back online!!

There needs to be choice.
People are having such radically different experiences of this pandemic. Some are barely affected, some have had no income for the last 6 months. Some have underlying conditions, or their children do.

Parents should be allowed to home educate if they feel it's in the best interests of their family. That would then make classes less full for those who want to go in, or who don't have that choice. The government bought classes from Oak Academy, so why aren't parents allowed to use that if they feel that is best?

Forcing parents/guardians to choose between sending their child into an environment they are worried is unsafe, or completely deregistering their children - so losing all future contact with the school that their child is growing up in - is unnecessarily cruel, especially to those who have serious illness already.