4,200 children have lost a parent to Covid in New York State.

[ChavvySexPond]

Why do you think 4.200 children in New York State have lost a parent to Covid pushing them into single parent poverty or the care system?

And do you think it will happen here? Or are we protected by having the National Health Service?

uhfnyc.org/news/article/uhf-report-4200-children-nys--lost-parent-covid-19/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/champ.gothamist.com/champ/gothamist/news/more-children-ny-state-have-lost-parents-due-covid-19-911-attacks

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thecity.nyc/platform/amp/health/2020/9/30/21494764/thousands-of-new-york-children-lost-a-parent-to-covid-19-study-finds

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8791297/amp/More-4-000-New-York-children-lost-parent-coronavirus-report-finds.html

@herecomesthsun

There is no evidence that any parent or staff member has died as a result of COVID transmission in schools.

This scaremongering is totally unhelpful.

ecosse

Your arrogance and complacency is audacious. You're peddling misinformation here.

As a person who has suffered from CFS/Me I'm quite aware of it, it's not the first time I've heard of it, surprisingly.

You had better get a memo to all of the researchers beginning to study Long Covid to tell them they're wasting their efforts.

Incidentally, when I did have CFS, I wasn't getting cardiac symptoms and blood clots...

@Walkaround

Not sure where you've got the idea I am "callous" about other causes, but this is a thread (actually, an entire board) dedicated to the topic of coronavirus. And thus, I am discussing the risks associated with...the coronavirus.

[quote Ecosse]@herecomesthsun

There is no evidence that any parent or staff member has died as a result of COVID transmission in schools.

This scaremongering is totally unhelpful.[/quote]
Bollocks.

There are over 60 teachers who are recorded as having died of covid in the UK.

I know of a teacher associated with one of my children's schools who died of covid (obviously I'm not going to post identifying details on here).

It would be entirely possible to do detective work on contacts and analysing RNA to check how and where lines of transmission happen.

The government is showing no inclination to do this. This does not negate the underlying overwhelming likelihood that transmission can and does happen in schools.

Until we have proper action by the government on this, we have to assume that in school transmission is happening, as there is no scientific reason why it wouldn't happen in schools. The covid virus doesn't know where you do and don't want it to be infectious.

Not scaremongering. Sorry the truth makes you so uncomfortable.

@herecomesthsun

Of course teachers have died with (not necessarily of) COVID in the same way that taxi drivers, pilots and every other profession have.

There is no evidence that any of them contracted the virus in school as opposed to Tesco. The vast majority of evidence shows that DC play very little role in transmission.

@herecomesthsun - so, you are talking about schools and how they should have been reopened, but that’s not what this thread was started about? You are all talking about slightly different things and then accusing each other of callousness or focusing excessively on statistically small numbers, or whatever, when you are all talking at cross purposes anyway. It’s coming across as nobody actually listening to anyone else, tbh!

[quote Ecosse]@herecomesthsun

Of course teachers have died with (not necessarily of) COVID in the same way that taxi drivers, pilots and every other profession have.

There is no evidence that any of them contracted the virus in school as opposed to Tesco. The vast majority of evidence shows that DC play very little role in transmission.[/quote]
Apart from school being the most likely place for them to contract it, when schools were open. I'm afraid that the most intelligent explanation for these things is usually the obvious one.

I entirely agree with you though that it is outrageous that there is not a better arrangement for state-organised research into this important subject, to clear up misunderstandings on the part of some people that schools magically are places where covid isn't a danger

@herecomesthsun

Personally I don’t think vulnerable D.C. or teachers should be in school. I would reintroduce shielding on a voluntary, funded basis.

There is very little risk however to the vast majority of staff, DC and parents even in the unlikely event that a DC gets COVID.

So, why not introduce yet more ideas? The thread was talking about parents dying, single parent poverty and the care system, after all.

@Walkaround

I think it was you who accused me of callousness

The subject of transmission in schools is related to the concept of children with parents who have died or will die of COVID, as they are currently the only place where all of the measures to prevent transmission do not apply.

@Ecosse

I think the number of vulnerable staff, children, and parents will be much higher than you think. And we would then of course need to fund support for these people, and provide education for these children.

@Whatshouldicallme - well, since anything we do about covid will have knock in effects on other causes of poverty, etc, I think it could be called callous to act as though covid 19 exists in a vacuum and can be dealt with whilst ignoring everything else. Alternatively, nobody should have started throwing around insults about callousness in the first place, just because they don’t like statistical arguments, which the point I was really making in the first place...

given that there are half a million teachers in the UK

www.besa.org.uk/key-uk-education-statistics/#:~:text=There%20are%20currently%20506%2C400%20full,16%2C700%20work%20in%20special%20schools.

it is sad but not surprising that 60 of them have died with covid

@Walkaround

Yes, I don't disagree at all about that, and of course another risk around widespread circulation of the virus is poor health outcomes for a wide range of conditions which is also a concern. But I haven't argued otherwise and I think that is even more of a reason to control the circulation of COVID across all populations including parents and children, so I'm not sure why you think I've indicated otherwise.

What do you mean when you say "nobody should have started throwing insults around about callousness?" I didn't see any of that until YOU said I sounded callous.

I'm not sure if this is the strangest apology I've recieved, you forgot to name change before you started criticising yourself for name calling, or if you are confusing me for someone else...?

@Whatshouldicallme - probably confusing you for someone else! My apologies. I read through the thread quite quickly and the overall impression was one of people interpreting the OP in completely different ways, talking at cross purposes, and getting irate with anyone who wasn’t actually talking about the same thing as they were in the first place. Certainly lots of outrage at anyone suggesting that, statistically, it showed a very low proportion of deaths were among parents of young children, even though this is true and doesn’t actually mean that the person suggesting it thinks that it is therefore acceptable, or means we therefore do not need to do anything to try to control the spread of the virus.

[quote Walkaround]@Whatshouldicallme - probably confusing you for someone else! My apologies. I read through the thread quite quickly and the overall impression was one of people interpreting the OP in completely different ways, talking at cross purposes, and getting irate with anyone who wasn’t actually talking about the same thing as they were in the first place. Certainly lots of outrage at anyone suggesting that, statistically, it showed a very low proportion of deaths were among parents of young children, even though this is true and doesn’t actually mean that the person suggesting it thinks that it is therefore acceptable, or means we therefore do not need to do anything to try to control the spread of the virus.[/quote]
You mean that 4,200 children without parents in 1 city isn't really all that many? In the greater scheme of things?

I find the attitude of some posters on MN to Covid very interesting. There's a morbid fascination with it - a weird blend of recognising that it's a terrible thing but also almost enjoying the opportunity to stoke fear by starting threads that seem to serve no useful purpose other than to rubberneck at the latest news.

OP, how many children in New York State have lost a parent to cancer? Are they not worth starting a thread about?

There are nearly 20 million people living in New York State @herecomesthsun.

@herecomesthsun - there you go again. I mean people saying that, statistically, parents of young children are not the ones most at risk doesn’t mean the people saying it think the fact that huge numbers of people died in New York State was fine and dandy.

But then, since you do not want a total lockdown, you clearly don’t want to prevent all deaths, do you? In the greater scheme of things?

(Btw, if this were a thread about schools, I would agree that schools have been hung out to dry, with ludicrous expectations, lack of appropriate facilities, and a complete lack of financial support).

people saying that, statistically, parents of young children are not the ones most at risk doesn’t mean the people saying it think the fact that huge numbers of people died in New York State was fine and dandy.

It is a form of whataboutism, though, isn't it?
A: "oh no, some tragedy killed X people, how sad!"
B: "yeah but what about these Y other people who died? Y is bigger than X." (implicit subtext: X doesn't count)
... Followed by endless circular arguments all boiling down to "Well, Y is bigger than X, am just stating facts! Why can't you all be more rational like me?" (I.e. constantly deflecting the conversation away from its original topic)

Should you really be that surprised that people call you callous?Whataboutism is callous trolling.

@Velvian

As a person who has suffered from CFS/Me I'm quite aware of it, it's not the first time I've heard of it, surprisingly.

You had better get a memo to all of the researchers beginning to study Long Covid to tell them they're wasting their efforts.

Incidentally, when I did have CFS, I wasn't getting cardiac symptoms and blood clots...

^This.

Pop off a line while you're at it to the researchers who are predicting an alarming rise in Parkinson's Disease in post-Covid patients (as there was worldwide a few years after the Spanish flu), including those whose symptoms were not particularly bothersome, indicated by the loss of smell associated with both conditions, and because the virus can get into the brain.

I find the attitude of some posters on MN to Covid very interesting. There's a morbid fascination with it - a weird blend of recognising that it's a terrible thing but also almost enjoying the opportunity to stoke fear by starting threads that seem to serve no useful purpose other than to rubberneck at the latest news.

I think it is moreso a desperate effort to counterbalance the bored-with-restriction, not-going-to-wear-a mask, it's-just-a-flu/cold/hoax Covid downplayers - and also a response to the repetitious, social-media-echo-chamber influenced, and shallow misunderstandings about why the entire world is acting like this is a big deal, when the eugenicists of MN know better.

Some here saying children play no part in transmission.

If you fully read all the science on this even the most positive take is they have it more mildly but we have no idea about transmission. Absence of evidence does not mean something doesn’t happen.

Countless studies that bothered to look at contacts show children transmit the virus.

Here’s a summary and analysis of a few of them

Believe it or don’t believe it. Your choice.

twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1312392762445066243

Oh and the UK Viner study that insists kids are FINE has been totally pulled apart by his peers too.

twitter.com/SarahDRasmussen/status/1309437229622865920

And finally there’s the fact that educational settings have seen the most outbreaks (with transmission) for the last two weeks running. (Wk 37 and 38 - last two bars)

Link here and one graph in attachments

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/921561/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_39_FINAL.pdf

Definition of outbreak: An outbreak is defined as two or more test-confirmed cases of COVID-19 among individuals as- sociated with a specific non-residential setting with illness onset dates within 14 days, and one of:
(1) Identified direct exposure between at least 2 of the test-confirmed cases in that setting (for example under one metre face to face, or spending more than 15 minutes within 2 metres) dur- ing the infectious period of one of the cases
(2) When there is no sustained local community transmission - absence of an alternative source of infection outside the setting for the initially identified cases
In week 38, there were 248 confirmed COVID-19 clusters or outbreaks in educational settings. The highest number of COVID-19 confirmed clusters or outbreaks were reported through sec- ondary schools (Figure 21).
Figure 21: Number of COVID-19 (On page 21 in link)