4,200 children have lost a parent to Covid in New York State.

[ChavvySexPond]

Why do you think 4.200 children in New York State have lost a parent to Covid pushing them into single parent poverty or the care system?

And do you think it will happen here? Or are we protected by having the National Health Service?

uhfnyc.org/news/article/uhf-report-4200-children-nys--lost-parent-covid-19/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/champ.gothamist.com/champ/gothamist/news/more-children-ny-state-have-lost-parents-due-covid-19-911-attacks

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thecity.nyc/platform/amp/health/2020/9/30/21494764/thousands-of-new-york-children-lost-a-parent-to-covid-19-study-finds

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8791297/amp/More-4-000-New-York-children-lost-parent-coronavirus-report-finds.html

[quote herecomesthsun]@BrazenlyDefying

So what is the positive side to 4,200 children losing their parents? Please do explain, as the upside of this escapes me.[/quote]
Nobody is saying they don't matter. They are talking about what the facts are. It is a fact these people are more vulnerable. It is not being heartless to talk about this, of course its "not okay", but nonetheless that's the facts and you're allowed to talk about it.

@IloveJKRowling

Tragic, and yet we're sending schools back with no risk reduction at all as cases soar.

Why won't the government learn?

Reducing transmission is the only thing to prevent this. Sadly, we're not trying in schools - no money, no extra TAs, no small classes, no SD, no masks.

57% of these kids are in New York City which had the hardest lockdown in the entire USA, or at least one of them, the schools have been closed throughout and are still not open.

What lesson would you like the government to learn here?

@BrazenlyDefying

Obviously there isn't a positive, happy clappy side to any death.

But as others have said you have to put any figures in context. Size of the population, total number of families affected, age of the parents, underlying conditions.

There was none of that in the OP - it was all designed to stoke fear and scaremonger.

There is quite a lot more detail in the report itself.

But I think it is useful to be reminded that tiny percentages of big numbers can have really significant real world effects. In this case on thousands of poor children in one US state.

Lockdown-associated deaths are more likely to be amongst people with younger children.

This case was particularly horrible
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8221165/Girl-14-taken-foster-care-NHS-nurse-mother-dies-Covid-19-father-critical.html

As well as one where a 20 something year old care home worker died leaving a toddler in the care of grandparent.

This is what happens when cases rise.
It will kill the carers again. And it kills younger people because the health service is oveeewhelmed and i assume they were just not taking people in soon enough. The virus hasnt got milder so much as people can go in to be treated and monitored not left at home while getting less and less oxygen.
Also if you have managed to get covid positive result they would take it more seriously.

@Ecosse

The vast vast majority of those 5000 people in the 45-64 category would have had underlying health conditions *@Witchend*.

People under 80 without underlying conditions have far mor exchange of dying in a car or domestic accident than being killed by COVID in a year.

Does having underlying health conditions-which includes things like asthma, which generally aren't life limiting-preclude them from being parents? Or are you implying that if they have underlying health conditions then their children will be less traumatised by them dying?

I'm not sure what your point is other than to minimise it.

@Ecosse

Noted that proportionally most deaths are in those over 80 but if significant numbers of people are reinfected again, as they were in the first wave, then there will still be a lot of younger people who will die. Some of these people will be parents and this will have an enormous impact on their children.

This article was cited in another thread: www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/04/one-school-25-bereavements-essex-head-fears-emotional-impact-of-covid-19

This school is not particularly unique in areas hard hit with COVID. I know of some schools in my local area with a significant number of parents lost. Schools in areas not particularly hard hit in the first wave may have been luckier, but that's not to say it will be the same in a second wave.

If we are talking about the pandemic's impact on children this topic certainly has a place in the discussion. It will not be a small number of children impacted if we allow COVID to spread throughout families.

Does having underlying health conditions-which includes things like asthma, which generally aren't life limiting-preclude them from being parents?

Asthama is not really the risk factor it was first thought to be, this information has been available for a while.

www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/09/04/Asthma-may-not-boost-risk-for-severe-COVID-19-study-says/7141599229726/

A lot of people with asthma think they have a predisposition to severe COVID, and they worry a lot about going out. They should take precautions like using their masks, but they may not need to worry so much," said study author Dr. Fernando Holguin. He's director of the Asthma Clinical and Research Program at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus, in Aurora.

Holguin said the proportion of hospitalized COVID-19 patients with asthma was around 6%.

"For most places, that's an asthma prevalence that is at or lower than the asthma prevalence in the general population. To compare, with influenza [flu], we typically see about a quarter of those in the hospital have asthma," he said,

So as you can see, flu is more dangerous for asthmatics than C19.

[quote Whatshouldicallme]@Ecosse

Noted that proportionally most deaths are in those over 80 but if significant numbers of people are reinfected again, as they were in the first wave, then there will still be a lot of younger people who will die. Some of these people will be parents and this will have an enormous impact on their children.

This article was cited in another thread: www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/04/one-school-25-bereavements-essex-head-fears-emotional-impact-of-covid-19

This school is not particularly unique in areas hard hit with COVID. I know of some schools in my local area with a significant number of parents lost. Schools in areas not particularly hard hit in the first wave may have been luckier, but that's not to say it will be the same in a second wave.

If we are talking about the pandemic's impact on children this topic certainly has a place in the discussion. It will not be a small number of children impacted if we allow COVID to spread throughout families.[/quote]
Why do you think that ''significant' numbers of people were re-infected in the 'first wave'?

In the US, around 1 in every 3 deaths in the African American and Hispanic populations were of people under 65 years old.
www.statnews.com/2020/07/10/covid-19-disparity-black-hispanic-americans-deaths-under-65/

Imo bj experience is why we cant let it get out of control.
A 55yo. Overweight. Still working not expected to retire for at least 10y.
If he were an average person in the first wave he could easily have died. As he probably wouldnt have been taken in as they were trying to keep the beds. He got monitoring at no 10 oxygen maybe and put in a ventilator ward in case he needed it. On oxygen. An average man would have been stuck at home calling 111 to say they were struggling to breathe but told to stay home (until significantly struggling to breathe) but obviously ambulances etc were busy.
I was a teen when my parents were that age. They were still working just about. Even if i were say at uni that still would have been a challenge to cope with the house etc maybe pay a mortgage.
Nowadays i know a lot of people having kid sat 40. Obviously there was a risk they might die when kids were young. But relatively low.
About 1/10 have asthma and similar diabetes.

@Refractory

Lockdown-associated deaths are more likely to be amongst people with younger children.

This report is about parental deaths from COVID-19.

@Keepdistance

Imo bj experience is why we cant let it get out of control. A 55yo. Overweight. Still working not expected to retire for at least 10y. If he were an average person in the first wave he could easily have died. As he probably wouldnt have been taken in as they were trying to keep the beds. He got monitoring at no 10 oxygen maybe and put in a ventilator ward in case he needed it. On oxygen. An average man would have been stuck at home calling 111 to say they were struggling to breathe but told to stay home (until significantly struggling to breathe) but obviously ambulances etc were busy. I was a teen when my parents were that age. They were still working just about. Even if i were say at uni that still would have been a challenge to cope with the house etc maybe pay a mortgage. Nowadays i know a lot of people having kid sat 40. Obviously there was a risk they might die when kids were young. But relatively low. About 1/10 have asthma and similar diabetes.

But we know that 55 year olds died; we accept this. Still the average was 82.

Asthma is not an aggravating factor, see my post above.

Even people with very well-managed diabetes are much higher risk of dying from flu. Their risks do not begin or end with C19.

I never get why these threads turn they way they do.

Why is it ageist to state the facts? It's a fact that your more likely to get heart disease over 40 than under 40.

Would the politically correct WOKE approach to be to stop shielding people based on age, ethnic origin, health conditions? God forbid we upset someone.

No one here has said minority groups or older people dont matter have they?

Why do people have to spend their entire lives outlook in outrage?

I'm.obese based on my BMI but I dont feel the urge to get outraged and say "do I not matter?!" If someone said I'm more likely to die of covid?

Why dont we just stop researching this pandemic and ignore who might not fair so well completely. That way no one has to be offended.

Covid kills humans. Happy with that? Your a human so you have 1% chance of dying if you catch it. Any further detail is hate speech 🤔

@Whatshouldicallme

It HAS happened to children here of course, there just aren't any news articles about it...perhaps the data has not been made public?

It will continue to happen if we carry on pretending like it's only very poorly and very old people who get very ill from COVID. The NHS unfortunately cannot protect children from the impact that losing a parent at a young age will have, no.

Yes, of course, you're right. When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans.

When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans.

How ridiculous. Given that there is more than a 99% chance of NOT dying from Covid.

@Legoandloldolls

I never get why these threads turn they way they do.

Why is it ageist to state the facts? It's a fact that your more likely to get heart disease over 40 than under 40.

Would the politically correct WOKE approach to be to stop shielding people based on age, ethnic origin, health conditions? God forbid we upset someone.

No one here has said minority groups or older people dont matter have they?

Why do people have to spend their entire lives outlook in outrage?

I'm.obese based on my BMI but I dont feel the urge to get outraged and say "do I not matter?!" If someone said I'm more likely to die of covid?

Why dont we just stop researching this pandemic and ignore who might not fair so well completely. That way no one has to be offended.

Covid kills humans. Happy with that? Your a human so you have 1% chance of dying if you catch it. Any further detail is hate speech 🤔

I actually think some people just love saying "so you don't care about others then?"

Yes, of course, you're right. When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans.

Bluntly, I'm long since immune to the rhetorical weapons of lockdown enthusiasts.

Death is sad, but the way we normally deal with it as a public health issue is through statistics. I'm not extremely moved by your neighbour's wife's story.

@MushMonster

Chilling. This really worries me, that I may leave mine to fence for herself. At least in UK you have the NHS and welfare, to help in these situations. Some of the documentaries about US proverty in some big cities is scary. People who are working, yet homeless as they cannot afford any sort of accomodation.

Not far behind here these days after decades of trying to emulate American policy.

There's a real housing shortage in Britain and in-work poverty is high with stagnant wages, insecure work and high rents.

What's left of the welfare state - after a decade of Tory cuts and austerity - is a crutch but even before Covid the streets of Britain were plagued with rough sleeping and homelessness.

@Refractory

Yes, of course, you're right. When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans.

Bluntly, I'm long since immune to the rhetorical weapons of lockdown enthusiasts.

Death is sad, but the way we normally deal with it as a public health issue is through statistics. I'm not extremely moved by your neighbour's wife's story.

Where do you get "lockdown enthusiast" from?

"Yes, of course, you're right. When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans."

Yes you are right. That one anecdote completely changes the statistics and facts of this virus.

@Refractory

Sorry -- that should say "infected" not reinfected. Ofc most of the people who died in the first wave were only infected once...

The vast, vast majority of COVID deaths occur in people who are over the age of 80

What a meaningless statement. A huge number can be a minority of a still bigger number, you know. Doesn't stop it being a huge number. You'd have a point if Covid was less infectious.

@BrazenlyDefying

When my neighbour was in hospital with it his wife told me she was trying to prepare herself to be a widow and felt she had to be extra careful not to catch covid so her children didn't become orphans.

How ridiculous. Given that there is more than a 99% chance of NOT dying from Covid.

Well, next time you meet someone whose husband is in intensive care with Covid, you can tell them that.

I'm sure they'll find it a far more appropriate way of looking at things to think of their own husband as merely a fraction of a statistical percentage point rather than the man she and her young children love.

Death is sad, but the way we normally deal with it as a public health issue is through statistics.

Agreed. These overly emotive lines are not useful. Look at the big picture and determine from there.