All those talking about praying for Donald Trump - is this one OK? Trigger Warning: includes bible content some may find upsetting *amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

I mean, it seems a bit full-on to me, but it's in the bible so I guess it must be OK. Psalms 109, verse 8 onwards.

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Because that he remembered not to show mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him:
As he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

@peakotter - when you start mentioning the Apocrypha and the Council of Nicene and such like believe me you wouldn't want me. A church or temple is a community of faith not doubt.

I'm more Buddhist these days in thought if not practice. Trump it would seem to have never experienced true love and so has found no peace in his life and as a result, seeks to inflict his destructive restlessness of the world around him. With Biden up to 14% ahead in the polls looks like good will triumph over evil, 'God' can rest easy.

www.dalailama.com/messages/religious-harmony-1/establishing-harmony-within-religious-diversity

So, with close contact in that way, if we don’t remain closed-minded but open up, then we can learn something from each other. That way, we can develop mutual understanding and respect. And anyway, a new reality is there. Therefore, I think that the development of mutual harmony among different religions is very important. This is one of my commitments until my death, to promote religious harmony. This is very helpful

@JesusInTheCabbageVan tempting... but we’d need some angels to carry the coals as his security has scary guns and stuff!!!

@vera99 we’ve done a series on that with 11-14yo, including writing our own version of the nicene/apostles creed and deciding which books we would put in the authorised bible and why (more dragons is a valid reason!). Sure, don’t talk about it during the songs, but in discussion time, absolutely. I hope most churches have changed from spoon feeding faith to youth groups, it certainly would have put me off at that age if I’d been attending a church.

I'm a Rowan Williams fan sadly retired. Listening to a 45-minute easter sermon of recurring historical memes in the development of spiritual thought in Easter week ar Westminister Abbey I realised he was truly a man of God. He drags you in though - very big on the concept of community at the heart of all we should do.

@Dontcarewhatmyusernameis

Well I for one am glad you shared this Psalm. The Old Testament prophets were full of talk against those who oppress the poor, those who deny justice to the vulnerable, those who pursue power and status and money instead of justice and peace and love,.... Not to mention the endless, endless repetition of God saying "Be kind to the foreigner in your midst" (I don't think that includes separating children from parents) over and over again throughout the BIble. I find this "Come on, be nice" response from Christians disappointing. Jeremiah was God's chosen man, did he say nice things about the crap he saw around him? Was Jesus nice about the hypocritical Pharisees? His disciples even told him off for not being nice enough to them. Trump does not need our niceness. And when it comes to praying, it's not that I wouldn't pray for Trump. But what about all the other billions of people in the world who we can be praying for? Maybe it's right to reserve more prayers for the people who DON'T have top notch health insurance, money and power.

So now Christians do not have to be nice to other people? Good grief.

For people who seem to be "christian", judging by all the bible verses in this thread, you are some incredibly horrible, nasty, vicious people.

Trump may be many nasty things, but this thread takes the biscuit.

@TeflonTits yeah, we're awful, awful rotters. Probably best if you bugger off, so we don't continue to offend your delicate sensibilities. Ta ta.

@feistyoneyouare my take on it is: Christians do still have to be nice to each other, but if a particular individual has been a truly astonishing prick for an unreasonably long time, they can petition God to do a bit of long-overdue smiting.

I have nothing to add to the thread but I am enjoying all the Christians telling off Jesus

@PastMyBestBeforeDate Don't they know who I am?

@TeflonTits don't swear, it's a sin.

@TeflonTits don't swear, it's a sin.

So fucking sorry dear, didnt mean to "offend" your delicate sensibilities.

@TeflonTits you seem very... invested in all this. Do you perhaps need a nap?

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]@TeflonTits you seem very... invested in all this. Do you perhaps need a nap?[/quote]
No, I'm with TeflonTits on this. As someone who is about to become a widow wishing that on another person is absolutely not on.

If you don't like him then pray for him to lose his job. Wishing someone's children to lose their father on a parenting website is abhorrent and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Thank you all for reminding me why I decided that Christianity is not for me.

God is fine - it's all the so-called Christians who are the problem.

Hi @DivGirl. I'm truly sorry to hear about your DH. I'm sorry this thread has hurt you, and I understand why it has.

I think there are two separate issues here. The first is how I and others feel about Trump. I won't apologise for how I feel about him, and I don't think anyone on here (or on the other similar threads) should feel ashamed for the strength of their feelings against him.

The second issue is how and where I expressed those feelings. Posting a thread like this in the Coronavirus forum (without making it sufficiently clear in the title what it was about) was a mistake, and I'm genuinely sorry that you happened across it. That must have been horribly painful and upsetting, and if I could take that back, I would.

I hope you're OK tonight, and take care.

@feistyoneyouare there is surface “niceness” and then there is genuine kindness, love and goodness. I was trying to point out the difference between the two. Jesus called out hypocrites, and the disciples were embarrassed by him, they wanted him to be nice to everyone. But he cared about something deeper than niceness - love shown in actions. He cared about justice for the poor, the widow and the orphan - the most vulnerable in his day.
My post was meant to be expressing my frustration at Christians who enable Trump, support him and vote for him. To me it’s enabling a dangerous man. I do not wish him ill or dead. The psalmists express a lot of things in prayer because humans experience all kinds of emotions. I’d rather see Trump defeated in the elections and face up to his crimes in court.

@Dontcarewhatmyusernameis good post, as is your previous one.

While my OP was admittedly flippant, this thread became an interesting, thoughtful and largely courteous debate about the 'trickier' bits of the bible, and people's feelings about the current situation. Perhaps it's run its course now anyway, but if it does continue, I hope it can stay that way.

This thread has made my day!

I love the psalms. Particularly the BCP version.

@Toddlerteaplease despite my username my knowledge of the bible is atrocious. I've been enjoying reading some of the quotes on here - they're a lot more poetic than I realised.