All those talking about praying for Donald Trump - is this one OK? Trigger Warning: includes bible content some may find upsetting *amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

I mean, it seems a bit full-on to me, but it's in the bible so I guess it must be OK. Psalms 109, verse 8 onwards.

Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless children.
Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Because that he remembered not to show mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him:
As he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

The Christians amongst us should be glad we are discussing the Bible on a Sunday albeit it (probably) from a jaundiced view. How about this one from Jeremiah wjo was big on his lamentations.

Jeremiah 30:13
There is none to uphold your cause, no medicine for your wound, no healing for you.

If we’re going Old Testament:

Psalm 91 15-16

He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honour him.
With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.

Jeremiah is the gift that keeps on giving even smoting his lovers for good measure.

…12 For this is what the LORD says: “Your injury is incurable; your wound is grievous. 13 There is no one to plead your cause, no remedy for your sores, no recovery for you.14 All your lovers have forgotten you; they no longer seek you, for I have struck you as an enemy would, with the discipline of someone cruel, because of your great iniquity and your numerous sins.…

I doubt his children will be begging vagabonds. They might well be hoping he croaks so they can get their inheritance though.

Inheritance - the truth if his empire is he is probably a huge net debtor now given he is long on city real estate and tourism...

Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life. (NIV, 1 Timothy 6:17-19)

@bathsh3ba

Nice try OP but if you understood the context of those Psalms and what they mean in the wider Bible, you would realise you just shot yourself in the foot.

Happy to admit I don't have a clue! What do they mean? I will see if I can Google it, but if it means wading through a lot of dense biblical analysis, I would probably rather shoot myself in the foot a couple more times.

@Hmmph balls, knew there'd be a catch.

@vera99 another good one! This is my kind of bible school. let's not forget... [[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlC1muhsDU]]

Screwed that up. Let's not forget...

I think you need to give this line a little more careful consideration, OP
"As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him"

Curses, like chickens, come home to roost.

@HeyMacarona Ah, Trump has to call on him first though!

@littlecatfeet I will take one for the team, if that's what it takes.

Well I for one am glad you shared this Psalm.
The Old Testament prophets were full of talk against those who oppress the poor, those who deny justice to the vulnerable, those who pursue power and status and money instead of justice and peace and love,.... Not to mention the endless, endless repetition of God saying "Be kind to the foreigner in your midst" (I don't think that includes separating children from parents) over and over again throughout the BIble.
I find this "Come on, be nice" response from Christians disappointing. Jeremiah was God's chosen man, did he say nice things about the crap he saw around him? Was Jesus nice about the hypocritical Pharisees? His disciples even told him off for not being nice enough to them.
Trump does not need our niceness. And when it comes to praying, it's not that I wouldn't pray for Trump. But what about all the other billions of people in the world who we can be praying for? Maybe it's right to reserve more prayers for the people who DON'T have top notch health insurance, money and power.

Reminds me of the curses the Romans would carve onto tablets or small metal pieces and throw into water. I tried it once and it didn’t work (not a curse).

@Dontcarewhatmyusernameis absolutely. Plus, I like that I'm genuinely learning some stuff from this thread. I'm intrigued as to how you, @vera99 and the others acquired your bible knowledge. I like to imagine you sitting there typing away in your Roman collars on Craggy Island.

U am not a Christain now but spent 10 years at Sunday school from the age of 4 to 14 when I was politely asked to leave as this was a place for practising not questioning faith! That said there is a lot of wisdom in the Bible and many wonderful practising Christians who are good neighbours, citizens and friends. I have a good knowledge of the Bible (I read it from cover to cover as a teenager it's abit heavy going in places) that and google!

Of one thing we can be certain Trump is not a Christian and it is sad that so many US Christians give him the time of day.

14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15 Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?…

Trump is awful, but:

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

Matthew 5.44 - from the Sermon on the Mount.

@vera99 sometimes I think America is another planet altogether. I read on BBC news about a fundamentalist Christian family reacting to Trump having protesters tear-gassed for his church photo opportunity. Apparently the mum shouted, 'He's doing a Jericho walk!' and then started crying and speaking in tongues.

Deuteronomy 32:35 "It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them.”

Romans 12:19
"Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."

@bathsh3ba

Nice try OP but if you understood the context of those Psalms and what they mean in the wider Bible, you would realise you just shot yourself in the foot.

Believers use the Bible without context all the time to further their own agenda. Perhaps it wasn’t the intended purpose of the Bible to provide confirmation bias to the deluded, but that’s certainly it’s primary function now.

Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes, we are all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
Crowd: Shhh!

Love or hate
Forgive or don’t forgive
Repent or don’t
The choice belongs to everybody

• I think it was, "Blessed are the cheesemakers"'
• What's so special about the cheesemakers?
• Well obviously it's not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.

I’m looking at the “vengeance” psalms in a different light now. David would have had something to say to Trump.

Unfortunately I think Christians are supposed to pray something positive for the man. I take comfort in Romans 12

19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good

@vera99 sorry they didn’t let you question at Sunday school! I wish we had more teens like you in our group at church, we have to teach them critical thinking and how to disagree with us.

@peakotter can we not just cut out the middleman and heap burning coals on his head?